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View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, September 8, 2009. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, September 8, 2009 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good evening. 6 Today is Tuesday, September 8th. The time 7 is about 7:00 p.m. It's time to call the 8 meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals for 9 the City of Novi. 10 Ms. Krieger, will you kindly lead us 11 in the pledge of allegiance. 12 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to 13 the flag of the United States of America and 14 to the Republic for which it stands, one 15 nation under God indivisible with liberty 16 and justice for all. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Ms. Martin, will 18 you please call the roll. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 20 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 21 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Here. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 24 MEMBER SKELCY: Here.
4 1 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 2 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 5 MS. MARTIN: Mr. Ibe? 6 MEMBER IBE: Present. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Here. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Wrobel will be 10 absent tonight. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. We 12 do have a quorum and the meeting is now in 13 session. I would like to go over the rules 14 of conduct. You can find a copy of them on 15 the agenda in the back. 16 Just a friendly remainder to please 17 turn off all cell phones and pagers. 18 Individuals applicants may take five minutes 19 and groups may take up to 10 minutes to 20 address the Board. 21 The Zoning Board of Appeals is a 22 hearing board empowered by the Novi City 23 Charter to hear appeals seeking variances 24 from the application of the Novi Zoning
5 1 Ordinance. It takes a vote of at least four 2 members to approve a variance and a vote of 3 a majority of members present to deny a 4 variance. Tonight we have a full Board, so 5 all decisions will be final. 6 Let's look at the agenda. Are there 7 any alterations, changes in the agenda? 8 MS. MARTIN: No, there is not. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: May I entertain 10 a motion to approve the agenda as presented? 11 MEMBER BAUER: So moved. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 14 those in favor of accepting the agenda 15 please signify by saying aye? 16 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 18 opposed same sign. Very good. There are no 19 changes. 20 Next I think we have some Minutes to 21 talk about today and we have Minutes here of 22 the meeting of August 11th, 2009. Are there 23 any changes, alterations, additions or 24 deletions to be made? Yes, Ms. Krieger?
6 1 MEMBER KRIEGER: On page 20, line 2 nine: Approve the request for installation 3 of a proposed generator in the interior side 4 yard of the existing offices. And then 5 further along I believe I had said on line 6 13: With the position of the generator and 7 the enclosure and noise levels. And that 8 the setback requirements. That's all. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 10 Yes, Mr. Ibe? 11 MEMBER IBE: No, nothing. Thank you, 12 Mr. Chair. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 14 Seeing none, may I entertain a motion to 15 approve the Minutes? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve with 17 the changes. 18 MEMBER IBE: Second. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: And seconded. 20 All right, the motion has been made to 21 approve the Minutes as amended. All those 22 in favor signify by saying aye? 23 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those
7 1 opposed same sign. Thank you. 2 Now, at this point I would like to 3 invite anybody in the audience for the 4 public remarks section. Is there anybody 5 here who would like to address the Board 6 regarding anything other than the items on 7 the agenda tonight? 8 (No response.) 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 10 will close the public remarks section and 11 move on to the first case on the agenda. 12 The first case on the agenda is Case 13 Number: 09-028, 41010 Malott Drive, Lot 251 14 Willowbrook Estates #2. 15 Is the Applicant here? 16 MR. PRESLEY: Yes, sir. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Would you please 18 come to the podium. Identify yourself with 19 your name and address and if you are not an 20 attorney, please be sworn in by our 21 Secretary. 22 MEMBER BAUER: He has been sworn in. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is it the same 24 group of people? That's okay, we don't need
8 1 to swear them in again, right, Counsel? 2 MS. KUDLA: You can swear them in 3 since it's a new meeting. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your 6 right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell 7 the truth regarding case: 09-028? 8 MR. PRESLEY: Yes. 9 MR. WERDA: Yes. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Would you please 11 identify yourself for the record. 12 MR. PRESLEY: My name is Greg Presley, 13 architect for the proposed project. My 14 address is 412 West Dunlap, Northville, 15 Michigan. 16 MR. WERDA: My name is Casimir Werda. 17 I am the homeowner of the house that's 18 getting an addition on it, 41010 Malott 19 Drive. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 21 Please make your presentation. 22 MR. PRESLEY: Shall we speak? 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 24 MR. PRESLEY: Caz would like to speak
9 1 first, so go ahead. 2 MR. WERDA: Well, thank you for 3 letting me speak. I would just like to say 4 that things happen for a reason, and what I 5 have learned as a homeowner is that I do 6 have rights as a homeowner, but I also have 7 responsibilities as a homeowner. And I went 8 out and with the last meeting, what it did 9 it broke the talking barrier with my 10 neighbors surrounding me and I was able to 11 talk and speak to them and actually find a 12 middle and compromise for the addition. 13 Also, with the addition having it 14 flipped which Greg will talk about later, 15 but it will be on the other side than what 16 we planned. I just want to let you know 17 that everything that, all the concerns that 18 everyone had we did research and made it the 19 best as we can so everyone would live in 20 harmony I guess you could say. So, that's 21 it. 22 MR. PRESLEY: I can talk about the 23 particulars. At issue last time we talked 24 to you was that we on advice of the people
10 1 who are the professionals thought that we 2 needed certain footprints, but we were able 3 to compromise and reduce the size of the 4 requirements for the exercise area so that 5 we were able to reduce the size from about 6 938 square feet to 690 square feet. That 7 was one issue was the size of it. And by so 8 doing, we were able to then not encroach in 9 the rear yard, so that was one thing. 10 The other was that we rethought the 11 idea of where it should go and decided that 12 if we put it on the west side and flip the 13 way we thought about things, we would be 14 able to solve the issue that we have with 15 the neighbor to the east. And so by so 16 doing we were able to minimize the number of 17 variances. Before we were coming for a 18 total of five variances and four of which 19 were dimensional variances, and now we have 20 reduced it to one and that is just to expand 21 a non-conforming facility by four percent 22 over the allowable lot coverage. 23 We have eliminated the need for side 24 setback for variance. We eliminated the
11 1 need for a rear yard setback variance. All 2 we're asking for is to expand a 3 non-conforming structure. It's already 4 non-conforming and to exceed the lot 5 coverage by four percent. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's it? 7 MR. PRESLEY: Yes. Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 9 there anybody in the audience who would like 10 to address the Board regarding this case? 11 (No response.) 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 13 will close the public remarks section and 14 request our Secretary to read any 15 correspondence. 16 MEMBER BAUER: There were two new 17 approvals from objections that we had last 18 time. And one was from Howard Turek. He 19 doesn't have an address. He can't be here 20 due to the fact that he is flying right now. 21 He went and talked to Caz and told him 22 personally that he wanted to make three 23 changes to his property. Install a privacy 24 fence in the subdivision against the bylaws.
12 1 Two, add onto the house, which is now at 2 issue. And, finally, install a swimming 3 pool. 4 The summer of 2008 there were many 5 disruptions to the peace of the neighborhood 6 caused by weekly parties at his home. These 7 parties would start Thursday night after the 8 bars closed and run through Sunday mornings. 9 Re-starting each visit by the Novi police 10 resulting in neighbor meetings with Sergeant 11 Terry Whitfield on a couple of occasions to 12 try and put a "lid" on the disruptions. The 13 Novi police visited his home at least a 14 dozen times during the summer of 2008. 15 Let's just say Caz made quite a negative 16 lasting impression on all of us. 17 Fast forward to now. Admittedly this 18 summer has been a refreshing change to the 19 chaos we lived through last year, but this 20 peace seemingly coincides with the phase two 21 of Caz's plan, now needing the approval of 22 these people. 23 I can forgive and forget, but it's Caz 24 who needs to mend fences in the neighborhood
13 1 by the way of goodwill on his behalf. I am 2 not convinced this addition will be nothing 3 more than a place to party based upon past 4 behavior. I hope I am wrong, but as the 5 saying goes, "once bitten twice shy", I am 6 not convinced. 7 What Caz does inside the confines of 8 his closed home we, his neighbors really do 9 not care. His actions become our issue when 10 those parties, some end at 6:00 a.m. on 11 Sunday morning, spill out into his yard 12 disturbing all of us. Many of us do work at 13 4:30 a.m. and my job, I am a Captain of 14 Spirit Airlines. How many other people 15 would step into the airline knowing that a 16 pilot didn't sleep the night before? 17 To reiterate, we do not care what Caz 18 does inside the confines of his closed 19 house. However, we the neighbors do not 20 want to be included in those parties as we 21 were last summer when all "hell" broke out. 22 The phase three plan of Caz's, a swimming 23 pool, is just an open invitation to extend 24 the party into his yard and become a further
14 1 disruption into the quiet we desire, and are 2 justified in having as his neighbors. A 3 swimming pool fit his advertised agenda when 4 I initially met with him, and the progress 5 to that end has shown he is on track to 6 complete his agenda. Caz needs to become a 7 steward of good faith and reciprocate in 8 kind with a goodwill gesture, understanding 9 we all have rights. The fact that he 10 defended our rights on foreign soil does not 11 now give him the right to take those rights 12 away from us at home as a result. I believe 13 a fair and equal compromise is that Caz be 14 allowed to build his addition shown in the 15 plans dated July 23rd and in return Caz 16 stipulates on record that he will put a 17 moratorium on the swimming pool idea by 18 neither building, or installing a swimming 19 pool or spa of any type in the period of 20 five years from this date. Without a 21 guarantee there would be no swimming pool or 22 spa added to this yard, I would have to 23 withhold my agreement on the addition to his 24 house. The neighborhood is not his
15 1 playground and we have our rights to peace 2 in our neighborhood. 3 We have one more. Could you read 4 this? I am losing my voice. 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: I think I see two 6 here. The first one is from Patrick 7 Kendall. "Dear Members of the Board. On 8 behalf of my family which resides at 40994 9 Malott, please accept this letter in support 10 of case 09-028 for 41010 Malott Drive. 11 Please also accept my sincerest apology for 12 being unable to attend the meeting as I 13 attend to the needs of my wife who will be 14 undergoing a surgical procedure. 15 In or around the end of July, I was 16 able to meet with the homeowner, Caz, and 17 his general contractor, Mike Miller, to 18 review new plans for Caz's addition. In 19 comparison with the previous plan, the new 20 plan presents a materially scaled down 21 additional structure, one-third of the 22 previously proposed size, situated at a site 23 on the back end of Caz's home, that 24 seemingly leaves enough distance between
16 1 adjacent dwellings and yards, so as not to 2 impede adjacent property owners' ability to 3 enjoy rear yard living space. 4 Personally and admittedly 5 selfishly, Caz and Mr. Miller have come up 6 with a plan that addressed every one of the 7 issues that my family brought before the 8 Board on July 13th. For that I am sincerely 9 appreciative. 10 I am most appreciative, however, in 11 having the opportunity to sit down with Caz 12 and Mr. Miller to discuss the plan and have 13 an open dialogue relative to the plan. 14 Over the course of the meeting of 15 September 8th, it is quite possible that you 16 may hear about prior disturbances that have 17 come from Caz's home over the course of the 18 last couple of years. While I 19 wholeheartedly support my neighbors' 20 concerns with regard to such incidents, I am 21 not sure that issues of this nature are of 22 the scope for which we gather here tonight. 23 I do, however, want to make a statement. I 24 want to encourage Caz as he enters a new and
17 1 permanent phase in his life, that of 2 Fatherhood. I am going to trust that Caz 3 embraces a devout sense of family, 4 community, and good faith, and closes the 5 book on the nonsensical actions that led to 6 the aforementioned incidents. 7 Once again, I appreciate the Board's 8 time, thought, and input relative to this 9 issue. In my opinion, this issue represents 10 a great example of compromise amongst human 11 beings with differing thoughts, opinions and 12 agendas." 13 And the other one is from -- it's the 14 same one, just from prior. Sorry. That's 15 it. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Very 17 good. Moving on. Building Department? 18 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. As the 19 Petitioner outlined the proposal before you, 20 he requires only two variances. One to 21 allow an addition to a non-conforming 22 structure, and a variance of four percent 23 for the lot coverage as opposed to the seven 24 percent originally proposed.
18 1 I did want to make one comment on the 2 drawings that were provided. It's unclear 3 how wide the eaves are in terms of the 4 projection into the setback, and my thought 5 or concern is that -- I guess I just wanted 6 to bring up that the eaves will need to 7 comply with Section 2908 of the Zoning 8 Ordinance. 9 MR. PRESLEY: They are two feet if 10 that complies. 11 MR. BOULARD: It depends on the 12 setback. But if they needed to be reduced a 13 little bit, is that something that -- 14 MR. PRESLEY: No problem. 15 MR. BOULARD: It would just save 16 another variance (unintelligible). Other 17 than that I have nothing to add. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I 19 will open it up to the Board now for us to 20 discuss. While you are thinking about it I 21 will put in my penny's worth of comments. I 22 think the Applicant has clearly looked at 23 some of our concerns from the previous 24 meeting and has really restructured the
19 1 whole thing in such a way that most of these 2 variances indeed are quite acceptable as of 3 now. Having said that, I would be open to 4 suggestions from the rest of the members of 5 the Board. 6 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 8 I have analyzed the two drawings, the before 9 and the after. I do have to compliment both 10 of you for not only working with your 11 neighbors, but for the redraft. In general 12 it's your duty to try to come to the Board 13 with as minimal variances as needed. And 14 that was one of our concerns before. I 15 think you have not only met, but I think you 16 have exceeded at least my expectations, so I 17 am in support of this and I would be willing 18 to support a motion. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 20 Mr. Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Caz, I must also reecho 22 what my colleague has just said. I think I 23 was one of the individuals the last time who 24 was quite concerned about this, and I think
20 1 I asked that you guys go back and talk to 2 your neighbors. I am glad to know that you 3 are, in fact, speaking to your neighbors. 4 And, please, don't let it be the last time 5 you speak to your neighbors because 6 obviously you discovered what talking to 7 neighbors can do. It can make things go a 8 long way, quicker at least. I have no 9 problem at all with what I see now. I think 10 you and your architect have done a fine job 11 in at least meeting some of the concerns 12 that some of your neighbors had and that 13 which the Board also had. So, thank you. I 14 have no problem supporting this as well. 15 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 17 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, I really 18 appreciate my colleague's discussion last 19 time and his concern about the situation as 20 it stood at that time. Apparently it turned 21 out that this has become a social, ethical 22 and (unintelligible), whatever you call it, 23 kind of a situation. It seemed like the 24 neighbors were a little bit hurt about the
21 1 actions supposedly, and I have no way of 2 verifying this. You can correct this record 3 if you want. 4 MR. WERDA: What he said it was 5 nothing like that. I have had the police 6 over a dozen times, probably almost two 7 dozen times. I have never gotten a ticket 8 issued ever. And a lot of the things that 9 he said in that letter are untrue. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you very much. 11 I have never had the police in my home. But 12 anyhow, that's besides the point. 13 MR. WERDA: Yeah, I just thought I 14 would clarify it. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: It seems like you 16 getting along with the neighbors will go a 17 long way toward having peace, tranquility 18 and getting along. And then look at how 19 good they are. I mean, I was amazed about 20 the human passion that they have put in 21 those letters. That they want you there, 22 they are not against you personally. They 23 were against some of the actions taking 24 place. And now they are giving their
22 1 permission for you to be a good neighbor and 2 go on from there. I am not trying to 3 lecture you. But, this is how the whole 4 affair progressed before us. 5 I hope, and I am going to okay it and 6 I am going to go along with this and I vote 7 positively for this case, but I hope in the 8 future as my good colleague here has said, 9 that you will reach out to your neighbors 10 and you will live in harmony and goodwill 11 with them as they want you to be there with 12 them. Good luck to you, hope you will be 13 okay and to your family. Thank you very 14 much. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 16 Cassis. Yes, Mr. Bauer? 17 MEMBER BAUER: I will vote no due to 18 the testimony that was given last time that 19 you will have a number of people over to do 20 the same thing. I consider that as a 21 commercial venture and I still do not think 22 that that will be a willing thing for anyone 23 who is living around you. I think the noise 24 will still continue, and I just cannot vote
23 1 for you. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 3 Thank you, Mr. Bauer. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman? 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: There was a mention 7 about the swimming pool. 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That is not our 9 concern. I think those things which are 10 (unintelligible) we don't need to go into 11 it. 12 MEMBER BAUER: It has no bearing. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Am I right, 14 Counsel? 15 MS. KUDLA: That's correct. The 16 swimming pool is unrelated to the request so 17 it could not be considered as a condition 18 relating to this. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: They will have to come 20 before us for a swimming pool? 21 MS. KUDLA: Well, it would depend if 22 they met Ordinance requirements. 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: While we are on
24 1 the subject I had a question. Is it 2 necessary to put all those irrelevant things 3 into the Minutes also? 4 MS. KUDLA: All which? 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The irrelevant 6 comments that were made that were in the 7 letters regarding this case. 8 MS. KUDLA: Is it necessary to read 9 the full letters? 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Those irrelevant 11 things and full letters and put them in the 12 Minutes? 13 MS. KUDLA: Well, they are in your 14 agenda packets, they will be with the final 15 Minutes. It's not necessary to read 16 everything. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Because I don't 18 like certain kind of extraneous comments 19 which were made which are not pertinent to 20 what we are talking about before this Board. 21 Whether they should be part even of the 22 discussion of the Minutes. 23 MS. KUDLA: Well, because they were in 24 the letter relating they have to stay part
25 1 of the record. But, I mean, you as the 2 Board are taking into consideration whether 3 those issues are not relevant to the 4 question before you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I just want to 6 make it quite plain that those irrelevant 7 things don't concern us. We are here about 8 the variances and that's all of our concern 9 and that's all we are going to confine our 10 discussion to. Thank you. 11 May I entertain a motion? Yes, Member 12 Ibe? 13 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, just real 14 quickly. Just a quick comment in light of 15 the conversation that's taken place between 16 you and the attorney. As an attorney 17 myself, while I support what is going on 18 here, I do also support the right of what I 19 call due process. And due process is the 20 right to object and to agree. So, whether or 21 not we have comments that are irrelevant 22 from neighbors or whoever it will be that 23 comes before this Board it should be made 24 part of the record, the total record. So,
26 1 whether we care about it or not, it's 2 irrelevant as to our personal feelings about 3 what the people say. 4 But I think that we should understand 5 that we are not trying to make you feel that 6 this person at home and those who are here 7 cannot have comments about their neighbors. 8 But, of course, it has to be something 9 that's in good taste. So, I believe that 10 the comments made by, I believe the 11 gentleman whose name is -- the pilot, it's 12 relevant to him. It may not be relevant for 13 the conversation that we're having here, but 14 it's not an irrelevant material that should 15 be dismissed the way we are trying to 16 dismiss it right now. 17 I do support what you are doing, but I 18 do think that everybody has a right to due 19 process. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Everybody has 21 the right. It's not an issue of right. But 22 never mind, we will leave it at that. 23 Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'm ready to make a
27 1 motion. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please, go 3 ahead. 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. I'll move 5 in case number: 09-028 for 41010 Malott 6 Drive that we approve the Petitioner's 7 petition as revised and submitted as of, I 8 believe it was the July 29th, 2009 plans 9 that were submitted to the Board. I believe 10 that the setback, frontage, height, bulk and 11 density requirements unreasonably prevent 12 the use of the property as a permitted 13 purpose. The variance will provide 14 substantial justice to the petitioner and 15 surrounding property owners in this 16 district. There are unique circumstances to 17 this property. The problem is not self 18 created. I think adequate light and air is 19 provided to adjacent properties. There is 20 certainly no increase of fire danger or 21 public safety. Property values will not be 22 diminished within the surrounding area. I 23 think it would, in fact, be increased. And 24 I think the Zoning Ordinance's spirit and
28 1 intent are observed. 2 MEMBER IBE: I'll second the motion. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Motion has been 4 made and seconded. Any further discussion? 5 Seeing none, Ms. Martin, will you call the 6 roll. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 8 MEMBER BAUER: No. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 14 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 18 MS. SKELCY: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 21 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes. 22 MR. WERDA: Thank you very much. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 24 All right, moving on to Case number:
29 1 09-033 for 26054 Novi Road, Bagger Dave's. 2 Is the Applicant here? The Petitioner is 3 requesting a variance to allow installation 4 of an additional 50 square foot wall sign on 5 the west elevation of the multi-tenant 6 building located at 26054 Novi Road for 7 Bagger Dave's. The property is zoned TC and 8 is located north of Grand River and east of 9 Novi Road. 10 Are you the Applicant? 11 MR. KRIEGER: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Will you please 13 identify yourself, state your name and 14 address and be sworn in by our Secretary. 15 MR. KRIEGER: My name is Jason Krieger 16 of Krieger & Associates. We're the 17 architects working for Bagger Dave's. The 18 address is 1412 East Eleven Mile, Royal Oak, 19 Michigan 48067. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 21 to tell the truth in case: 09-033? 22 MR. KRIEGER: I do. 23 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead.
30 1 MR. KRIEGER: We were here last month 2 and, again, the appeal is the same. Bagger 3 Dave's is going to be located in the out 4 building in Novi Town Center. Its location 5 creates two fronts. We feel that this is a 6 hardship because the Ordinance is allowing 7 one sign per building. One side faces Novi 8 Road which is definitely a main elevation 9 and the other one faces Novi Town Center. 10 We feel both sides are in need of a sign for 11 way founding for the customers. 12 What we are proposing is a sign that 13 is 50.27 square feet. If a sign were 14 allowed on that elevation it would be 15 allowed because of their frontage, it would 16 be allowed to be 63.75 square feet. So what 17 we're trying to do is minimize any variance, 18 but at the same time create a sign that is 19 not going to be dwarfed on elevation, make 20 sure that it looks good on the building. 21 We believe that this proposal is 22 within the spirit of the Ordinance because, 23 like I said, in our opinion there are two 24 fronts. This is a unique circumstance.
31 1 Other buildings around there, well I know 2 it's a case by case basis for the buildings 3 such as Pot Belly's, they all had the same 4 hardship. So, that's our proposal, and I am 5 here for any questions. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 7 there anybody in the audience who would like 8 to address the Board regarding this case? 9 (No response.) 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, we 11 will close the public remarks section. 12 Mr. Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Seventy-four notices 14 mailed. Seven returned. One approval. 15 Krieger & Associates, Ron Kowalski. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 17 Building Department? 18 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. The last 19 meeting the mock-up sign had not been 20 installed. It has been installed. I hope 21 everybody got a chance to look at it. Also 22 at the last meeting, I'm not sure, it may be 23 a moot point now, but one of the Board 24 members requested the size of the other
32 1 signs and so I added those other revised -- 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yeah, I saw 3 those. Thank you. 4 MR. BOULARD: If there are any 5 questions. Thank you. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Open 7 it up to the Board. Yes, Mr. Cassis? 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Just a question to Mr. 9 Boulard. I did look at the sign. And it's 10 supposed to be 50 square feet? Is it? Is 11 that replica on the building right now 50 12 square feet? 13 MR. BOULARD: I have not measured 14 that. 15 MR. KRIEGER: It's my understanding 16 based on the literature that I received from 17 the sign company what they put up is the 18 actual size. I did not actually go measure 19 it. 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Fifty square feet is 5 21 by 10, right? 22 MR. KRIEGER: Correct. 23 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't see 10 feet 24 there. It's a circular sign, and I don't
33 1 know how you measure square feet. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: By the area. 3 That's the formula for calculating a 4 circular area, pie multiplied by the 5 diameter. Pie is 3.27 or whatever it is. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: You think it is 50 7 square feet whatever the sign is up there on 8 that building? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I am not thinking 10 how many feet they are. I am just telling 11 you how to measure a circle. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, I am 13 asking if that is a 50 square feet replica 14 on that building? That's all I'm asking. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yeah. I don't 16 know that. I can't answer that. 17 MEMBER CASSIS: He can tell me yes or 18 he can tell me no. I don't know. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Can I answer, Mr. 20 Chair? 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Since he has been sworn 23 to tell the truth, this is the truth. 24 MR. KRIEGER: It's an eight foot
34 1 diameter sign and the area of that is 50.27 2 square feet. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: All right. That's my 4 question for now. Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. 6 Bauer? 7 MEMBER BAUER: I saw the sign tonight. 8 I think it's too large being a second sign. 9 You have one. I didn't see one in the back. 10 You didn't put one up there? 11 MR. KRIEGER: No. 12 MEMBER BAUER: I just feel it's too 13 big. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, anybody 15 else? Yes, Ms. Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: I'm not sure if it's 17 maybe an optical illusion because it appears 18 bigger than the other signs, but the other 19 signs in square footage are bigger than the 20 Bagger Dave's sign. 21 MEMBER SKELCY: I think probably the 22 problem with that is that those other signs 23 are higher on the building, so the 24 appearance of them is not as large, and
35 1 Bagger Dave's is very low on the elevation 2 of the building so it creates this 3 impression that it's huge. Which I have to 4 agree that it's extremely large for facing 5 that side of Novi Road. 6 And at this point I don't think I 7 would be in favor of it because it is so 8 large compared to the others. I mean, I 9 want to be just in terms of looking at what 10 other properties have, but the fact that 11 yours is so low gives the impression that 12 it's huge. It looks huge. 13 MR. KRIEGER: It did look like it was 14 installed a little low. The intent would be 15 that it would be centered from the awnings 16 to the crown that's on the building. Again, 17 opinion aside, our goal is to be below the 18 maximum square footage and trying to fit 19 within what has been done before. So, 20 that's what drove the bus, so to speak, on 21 our proposed sign. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. Yes, 23 Mr. Boulard? 24 MR. BOULARD: I think another thing
36 1 that may make the sign seem bigger is that 2 it's solid, whereas for example, the Biggby 3 Coffee sign has some voids in it. The Pot 4 Belly sign the area is based on probably a 5 rectangle around the unit as the corners 6 would be cut out. So, in that sense it may 7 seem bigger than the square footage, but I 8 can confirm that roughly the diameter would 9 be 50 square feet. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, I hope 11 that's the explanation. Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a couple 13 of questions for the City. I forget, the 14 correct way to measure the square footage of 15 the sign is the formula using for circles, 16 is that accurate? Or do you have to draw 17 lines on each side of it and calculate it as 18 a box? You understand my question? If the 19 diameter of a circle is 96 and you draw a 20 box around it, it would be an 8 by 8 sign 21 even though all of it would not be filled 22 in? 23 MS. KUDLA: I am checking this. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr.
37 1 Boulard? 2 MR. BOULARD: I'm not sure that -- 3 MS. KUDLA: I don't see a specific 4 provision in the Sign Ordinance on how signs 5 are measured. 6 MR. BOULARD: But that has been the 7 manner in which it's consistently measured. 8 And the Board has heard arguments before 9 that certain signs should meet that. So, 10 your point is well taken. 11 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, basically we use 12 the formula for a circle, a geometrical 13 formula and measure it? 14 MR. BOULARD: It would be consistent 15 with past practice and it would need to be 16 drawn as a square. Which would mean that a 17 50 square foot sign would be smaller than 18 the diagram for four foot radius. Which I 19 believe is your question. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. My recollection 21 was that you draw straight lines at the 22 corner of each, make it a square and 23 calculate it that way. Is that the way it's 24 supposed to be calculated?
38 1 MR. BOULARD: That's the way it has 2 consistently been calculated. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: That would be an 8 by 4 8 sign which would be 64 square foot. 5 MS. KUDLA: Which would require a 6 variance on that. 7 MR. BOULARD: When you calculated the 8 area, you calculated the actual area of the 9 circle of the sign? 10 MR. KRIEGER: Correct. That's what we 11 were told at the time. I don't remember, it 12 was months ago and somebody in my office was 13 working on it, but they did have a 14 conversation with the City and also the sign 15 company who has done signage in Novi before, 16 and everybody was to my knowledge on Board 17 in calculating it as a diameter and we did 18 the area from that. But the goal, again, is 19 to be at the 50 square feet. So we're not 20 trying to enlarge -- 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: Sir, I understand 22 that. But if my memory serves me correctly, 23 we have had sign requests come in before. 24 Sometimes it may be perfectly rectangular,
39 1 but there may be a little cut out and they 2 have to be according to our Ordinances. You 3 can't just measure the cut out in addition. 4 I think there are other measurements. 5 That's why I am trying to remember for a 6 circle. I don't remember a circular sign. 7 MR. BOULARD: Can I suggest a 8 possibility? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 10 MR. BOULARD: This is just a 11 possibility. In view of the fact that a 12 number of the Board members felt that the 13 sign was larger than it should be possibly, 14 and you are obviously entitled to one sign 15 on one side of the building, in this 16 particular case you have got a building with 17 the entrance on the opposite side from the 18 road in frontage. One option would be to 19 request a 50 square feet, basically a 7 foot 20 diameter sign perhaps, and the Board would 21 perhaps consider that with the condition 22 that the sign on the east side is also 23 reduced. 24 MR. KRIEGER: Yeah, I don't see that
40 1 being a problem. Let me look at the 2 elevation real quick, but I don't think that 3 would be a problem at all. 4 MR. BOULARD: And that's a suggestion. 5 MR. KRIEGER: If that's something that 6 the Board would be open to. Again, our goal 7 is not to have something that's some white 8 elephant on the building. That's why we 9 were proposing something a little bit 10 smaller. But I don't think that would be a 11 problem. What if we proposed to do a 7 by 7 12 square on Novi Road, but then on the side 13 that's allowed still let the owner propose a 14 sign that -- because they are allowed to go 15 up to a certain square footage. I would 16 almost feel like we're taking something 17 away. 18 MR. BOULARD: Ultimately it's just a 19 suggestion from the Board. 20 MR. KRIEGER: Sure. 21 MR. BOULARD: But you are only limited 22 to -- I mean, the sign on the east side 23 would be measured in a rectangle or a square 24 also. And you are entitled to one size as
41 1 opposed to two signs. 2 MR. KRIEGER: Right, exactly. I would 3 be open to something like that. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Can you shrink 5 the circle to fit into 7 by 7? Okay, all 6 right -- 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Does anybody have the 8 floor? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No. You can 10 have the floor now since nobody has it. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, Mr. 12 Chairman, I have great respect for what has 13 come before us. However, I was not sure as 14 to what the dimensions are, what the square 15 footage was on that wall. And as far as I 16 was concerned I was going to vote against 17 this. However, Mr. Boulard is coming up 18 with a compromise. And through no fault of 19 his, our downtown has become a totally 20 different and regrettable kind of situation. 21 Whereby we have buildings that have their 22 (unintelligible) to a main road. Alas it's 23 gone by the wind. 24 Anyhow, but this is not their
42 1 fault. What I would like to see here I 2 think if he would agree to have them 3 rectangular and reduced in their size. You 4 know, you keep saying two signs. No, you 5 are only allowed one sign and we are trying 6 to give you more. 7 MR. KRIEGER: Sure. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: So we want you to 9 compromise and come up with what Mr. Boulard 10 is willing to accommodate you. 11 MR. KRIEGER: Okay. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: So, why don't you just 13 get together with Mr. Boulard. 14 What would you like him to come up 15 with, Mr. Boulard? 16 MR. BOULARD: There is another twist. 17 MS. KUDLA: The nature of the variance 18 request here is just the additional sign and 19 not the size. So the fact that the size is 20 sort of advertised in a fashion that's 21 incorrect doesn't affect the variance 22 request. So, you can look at the variance 23 request. It's not going to have to be 24 re-noticed because the size was calculated
43 1 inaccurately. So, I think we are all right 2 from that perspective. And then if you can 3 look at sort of restricting the size as a 4 condition of granting the additional sign, 5 that would be related to the request. So 6 that would be an acceptable offer. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Are you saying to Mr. 8 Boulard that he's okay? 9 MS. KUDLA: He is okay, yeah, the way 10 it's advertised. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you. 12 MS. KUDLA: Yes. 13 MEMBER GHANNAM: I have a couple of 14 questions, Mr. Chair. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: Is he entitled to one 17 sign that's 50 square feet? 18 MS. KUDLA: He is entitled to one 19 sign. The maximum square footage is 20 something other than that, 63. So, we're 21 within the square footage for this one. So 22 that is not the nature of the variance. The 23 nature of the variance request is just the 24 additional sign.
44 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Right. But if this 2 is calculated as an 8 by 8 that would be 64, 3 correct? 4 MS. KUDLA: Right. 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, he could not get 6 that type of variance because that wasn't 7 noticed up today? 8 MS. KUDLA: So, we are at one foot, 9 yeah, if 63 is the maximum space. 10 MR. BOULARD: So, if the sign was 11 reduced to 63 feet that would meet the 12 requirements? 13 MS. KUDLA: Right, right. 14 MR. BOULARD: But exclusive of that, 15 my understanding from the comments of the 16 Board was that the sign was too big. My 17 point is, if the Board is not inclined to 18 grant the variance for a 63 or 64 foot sign, 19 there may be -- my suggestion would be there 20 may be a compromise for a smaller sign that 21 would meet your needs and satisfy the Board. 22 MS. KUDLA: Correct. All that would 23 have to be something below 63 square feet. 24 MR. BOULARD: All those things aside.
45 1 MEMBER GHANNAM: In light of that 2 because of the nature of the businesses in 3 that area and the way they are adjacent to 4 the corner, I understand some of them have 5 more than one sign, I wouldn't have a 6 problem supporting one, an additional sign, 7 but it would have to comply with our City 8 requirements in terms of size. So -- 9 actually I take that back. I think what we 10 suggested earlier, what would be 49, or a 7 11 foot diameter or 49 square feet. 12 MR. KRIEGER: Okay. 13 MEMBER GHANNAM: Because I think the 14 one that is proposed, an 8 foot diameter I 15 think would violate our ordinances. But 16 even if it was 63 I would still think that 17 it's too large. So, I would support a 7 18 foot diameter sign, an additional one. 19 MR. KRIEGER: So 49 square feet would 20 be? 21 MEMBER GHANNAM: Correct. That's what 22 I would support. Unless someone has any 23 better calculation or idea. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: Are you saying that
46 1 the other sign would be the same size too on 2 the other -- 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: That is not part of 4 the petition today. The petition is for an 5 additional sign within City Ordinances. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: What is the size of 7 the other one? 8 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The other sign 9 we have no business to be talking about. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: (Unintelligible). 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, our 12 esteemed attorney said that we can discuss 13 the other sign. So, now you are telling me 14 I cannot discuss it. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No. What I am 16 saying is before us is a variance for an 17 additional sign. That's all I'm saying. 18 MS. KUDLA: Because he is asking for 19 an additional sign you can discuss as a 20 possibility eliminating the size of the 21 front sign if he wants to reduce that as a 22 compromise to get a second sign. 23 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Right. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Did you understand
47 1 that? 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would be willing to 4 support a second sign being the first sign 5 he is already coming in smaller than what 6 the ordinance suggest for 50 square feet. 7 Just that the second sign I would approve 8 it, but that if it's facing on Grand River, 9 that one seems bigger, so come a little bit 10 smaller on that one. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. 12 MEMBER IBE: Can I make a motion? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead, 14 please. 15 MEMBER IBE: For case number: 09-033, 16 26054 Novi Road for Bagger Dave's, I move 17 that we grant the Petitioner's request. The 18 request is based on circumstances or 19 features that are exceptional and unique to 20 the property and do not result from 21 conditions that exist generally in the City 22 or are self created. And considering that 23 the property in question here has two fronts 24 facing Novi Road as well as that facing the
48 1 Novi Town Center. And the failure to grant 2 such relief will unreasonably prevent or 3 limit the use of the property and will 4 result in substantially more than mere 5 inconvenience to attain a higher economic or 6 financial return. 7 The grant of relief will not result in 8 use of structure that is incompatible or 9 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 10 surrounding properties. And that this 11 variance is not inconsistent with the spirit 12 of the Ordinance. I may also add that the 13 approval is restricted to the size that is 14 required under the City Ordinance. In other 15 words, that the Applicant has agreed that 16 the size of the approved variance will not 17 be beyond 49 square feet. 18 MR. KRIEGER: Forty-nine square feet. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 20 MS. KUDLA: To clarify 49 square and 21 how that measurement has come to be is that 22 49 square feet is measured by a 7 foot 23 diameter. 24 MEMBER IBE: That's correct. Seven
49 1 foot diameter. 2 MR. BOULARD: And just for 3 clarification then, the sign that is allowed 4 by right will be a maximum of 63 square 5 which means it's just under 8 feet in 6 diameter. 7 MR. KRIEGER: Just so I'm clear 8 because I'm getting confused. What we're 9 talking about here is the sign on Novi Road 10 and that's what we're regulating right now? 11 MEMBER IBE: That's correct, sir. 12 That's what the variance is about. That's 13 what you're asking for. 14 MR. KRIEGER: Exactly, exactly. 15 MEMBER IBE: I'm not talking about the 16 one that you are allowed by law. 17 MR. KRIEGER: Okay. 18 MEMBER IBE: It's the one that you 19 requested a variance. 20 MR. KRIEGER: All right, perfect. 21 MEMBER BAUER: I still second it. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, very good. 23 MR. KRIEGER: Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Any further
50 1 discussion? Seeing none, Ms. Martin, please 2 call the roll. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 10 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 14 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Congratulations. 19 MR. KRIEGER: Thank you. So, we'll 20 give you 7 by 7 measured square? 21 MR. BOULARD: And the other one is 63 22 square feet. 23 MR. KRIEGER: Square. Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good.
51 1 Thank you. Well, let's move on to the next 2 case on the agenda. Case number: 09-034 3 Shiro Restaurant, 43180 Nine Mile Road. The 4 Petitioner is requesting an extension to a 5 variance ZBA07-087 to allow the existing off 6 premises Shiro Restaurant pole sign to 7 remain on the northeast corner of Nine Mile 8 Road and Novi Road in the RM-1 District. 9 The properties where the sign and the 10 restaurant are located are both owned by 11 Arkin Enterprises. 12 Good evening, Mr. Arkin. 13 MR. ARKIN: Good evening. I am Irwin 14 Arkin. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: For the benefit 16 of our records would you please state your 17 name and address. 18 MR. ARKIN: Irwin Arkin, 43100 Nine 19 Mile Road, Novi. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand, 21 sir. Do you swear or affirm to tell the 22 truth regarding case: 09-034? 23 MR. ARKIN: Yes, sir. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir.
52 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 2 MR. ARKIN: Good evening. I am here 3 representing Mr. Shin of the Shiro 4 Restaurant that's indicated on the board 5 here showing the signage and the home 6 itself. I am here to request the renewal of 7 the variance granted in April of 2006 and 8 also December of 2007 allowing the 9 off-premise Shiro Restaurant sign on the 10 northeast corner of Nine Mile and Novi Road. 11 The signage has made a significant 12 difference. It has been very helpful. The 13 restaurant is extremely well hidden and 14 represents a hardship and is located in an 15 industrial wooded area. The restaurant sits 16 back 245 to 265 feet from Nine Mile Road and 17 600 feet from Novi Road. It cannot be seen 18 east and west on Nine Mile and north and 19 south on Novi Road. This picture shows it 20 can't be seen from the east. This picture 21 here indicates showing the picture looking 22 down Nine Mile Road towards the west. The 23 illustration here shows looking north on 24 Novi Road just before Nine Mile Road. The
53 1 illustration here is looking south on Novi 2 Road just before Nine Mile Road. In all 3 cases, the restaurant can not be seen. 4 A directional sign isn't new to Novi. 5 I will just show you a few examples here. 6 Here is the signage for Rotary Park, the Ice 7 Arena, the Sports Club also here, CVS Drug. 8 This landmark is not on Grand River, but 9 rather hidden in an industrial wooded area. 10 The restaurant is a destination location and 11 no matter how good a restaurant may be, the 12 restaurant needs directional assistance for 13 impulse patrons. 14 Discontinuing the off premise restaurant 15 sign could result in the devastating loss of 16 customer base as the restaurant patrons 17 could interpret the absence of the sign as 18 the restaurant being closed. Out of sight 19 out of mind. 20 The value of the land that Shiro 21 sits on far exceeds the value of the 22 business. I feel that it's important that 23 we as a community support the business with 24 the aid of the signage requested to insure
54 1 the continuing existence of this unique 2 landmark location. The signage request will 3 not negatively impact any neighbor or alter 4 the characters of the land. 5 Thank you for your time and much 6 consideration. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 8 there anybody in the audience who would like 9 to address the Board regarding this case? 10 (No response.) 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr. 12 Secretary? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Twenty-six notices were 14 mailed. Seven approvals. One return. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Mr. 16 Boulard? 17 MR. BOULARD: I have nothing beyond 18 what was provided in your packet for this 19 renewal request for a variance. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I 21 think I was around both previous times on 22 the Board and at that time my opinion was 23 and today also it is the same, as long as 24 Mr. Arkin is owner of all the properties
55 1 where the sign is I have no problem with the 2 sign staying there as it is. Thank you. 3 I'll open it up to the Board now. 4 Yes, Mr. Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: Mr. Arkin has been an 6 excellent neighbor, and also with his 7 business in Novi is well-known and I would 8 vote for that. 9 MR. ARKIN: Thank you, sir. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. 11 Bauer. Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, I too agree. I 13 live in the area. I go by that intersection 14 like three or four times a week. I agree 15 it's a nice hidden building. A beautiful 16 building by the way. And I think there is 17 an unusual circumstance which would 18 necessitate the use of the sign. I agree 19 that the sign is not large. It's not like a 20 billboard type. It's not obnoxious. It's 21 fairly tasteful so I would support it. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 23 Mr. Cassis? 24 MEMBER CASSIS: I want to go along
56 1 with my colleagues of what they have already 2 expressed. This unique property, this 3 unique building, and I have been in there 4 quite a few times, I hope it stays there for 5 a long, long time. You know, every time I 6 see "Gone With the Wind" I just, you know, 7 think, well, we have one up the street. 8 I want to also mention that my 9 compliments to whoever is running this 10 restaurant for their longevity and they must 11 be doing something right. And I think this 12 sign also helps because of the location of 13 that house. And I am going to go along with 14 this and vote yes and I hope for many, many 15 years that this restaurant will stay in 16 business and will keep that building up 17 there. Thank you very much. 18 MR. ARKIN: Thank you, sir. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Ms. 20 Krieger? 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: I totally agree. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 Okay. Well, I think we have reached a point 24 that I will entertain a motion. Please go
57 1 ahead, Ms. Krieger. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: In case number: 3 09-034 for 43180 Nine Mile Road for Shiro 4 Restaurant that I move to approve the 5 request for the continued off-site premises 6 sign that still belongs to Mr. Arkin who is 7 here petitioning for the case. That the 8 sign remain where it is for another two 9 years. And that it meets the spirit of the 10 Ordinance. And failure to grant relief will 11 unreasonably prevent the use of this 12 property. And that it is not self created. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: A motion has 15 been made and seconded. Any further 16 discussion? Seeing none, Ms. Martin, please 17 call the roll. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes, 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
58 1 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 8 MR. ARKIN: Thank you very much. Try 9 the food, it's good. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Good luck. 11 Okay, moving on to the next case 12 on the agenda is Case Number: 09-035 Lennox 13 Park, 40812 West Thirteen Mile Road. The 14 Petitioner is requesting an extension to the 15 granted variance of ZBA07-030 to allow the 16 continued placement of a revised over size 17 real/height real estate marketing sign 18 located on M5 for Lennox Park. 19 All right, sir, identify yourself. 20 State your name and address. If you are not 21 an attorney be sworn in by our Secretary. 22 MR. KASSAB (ph): Mark Kassab, 31550 23 Northwestern Highway, Farmington Hills, 24 Michigan.
59 1 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 2 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-053? 3 MR. KASSAB: I do. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please go ahead 6 and make your presentation. 7 MR. KASSAB: Thank you, Mr. Chairmen. 8 As many of you know I have been in front of 9 this Board numerous times for Lennox Park. 10 The corporate name is PT Commerce, but the 11 project is Lennox Park at Thirteen and M5. 12 We have a long history with this City on 13 this project from master planning on the 14 Planning Commission to City Council, ZBA and 15 so forth. Not getting into the details 16 about the economy which I'm sure we all 17 know, we have been pretty much devastated in 18 a number of our projects. We work with the 19 largest private builder in Michigan and 20 that's one of the reasons we have been able 21 to sustain this particular site. This is 22 one of our best locations. 23 The site is about a third of a mile 24 along the M5 Freeway. We actually don't own
60 1 any frontage on Thirteen Mile Road. We 2 actually share an easement between Lennox 3 Park Drive which is this driveway right 4 here. Our property line stops right here. 5 If you can see where I'm pointing to. Our 6 property line stops right here. There is a 7 shared easement with a church where all the 8 busses and all the traffic for the school 9 and the church access off of. 10 When we were granted the easement we 11 have seen a significant increase in traffic. 12 One of the largest complaints that we had is 13 many folks thought this was an extension of 14 Erickson's Fox Run Development, which it's 15 not. As everybody knows Erickson is a 16 retirement facility. Ours is for sale to 17 all age community. 18 We have 190 units in this project. 19 108 have been sold. 120 units are up. We 20 have about 18 specs as we call them. We 21 have about 62 units remaining. In a good 22 year I would hope to tell you I would be out 23 of that project in about a year and a half. 24 I don't even want to speculate how long it's
61 1 going to take us to get out of this project. 2 You know, we have almost self defeated 3 ourself with the landscaping that was placed 4 along the M5. If anybody has driven by 5 there it's pretty well shielded and, again, 6 that's to help increase the sales from the 7 units along M5. The good thing about this 8 project is it is a beautiful site. There is 9 a lot of natural features to the site. 10 Everything to the north and to the west is 11 going to be backing up to woodlands, and we 12 feel we have been a pretty good neighbor to 13 the church and to our own residents within 14 our own property. We actually helped raise 15 the ball field for the church through our 16 professionals in our office. And we continue 17 to work with our association within our 18 development. 19 I would be more than happy to answer 20 any questions, Mr. Chairman. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is 22 there anybody in the audience who would like 23 to address the Board regarding this case? 24 (No response.)
62 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr. 2 Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: There were 202 notices 4 mailed. Three approvals. Eighty-eight 5 returned mail. 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Eighty-eight 7 returned. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Eighty-eight returned. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 10 MR. KASSAB: We have a lot of 11 snowbirds. Maybe that's why they got 12 returned. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Mr. Boulard? 14 MR. BOULARD: I just have a couple of 15 questions. In the packet that was provided 16 you had a photograph and then also a drawing 17 of the sign which I assume is from the 18 original design of that. But in the photo 19 it looks different and quite possibly larger 20 with the other things. Is the intent to go 21 back to the original size of the sign? 22 MR. KASSAB: If I can respond, Mr. 23 Chairman? I think what Mr. Boulard is 24 referring to, this was the original sign
63 1 that was within the packages that showed 2 these dimensions. That's all we had within 3 our package. This is the sign that's 4 currently up right now. I did notice on 5 there they must have taken the -- I don't 6 recall the official term -- 7 MEMBER CASSIS: The arrow. 8 MR. KASSAB: This portion over 50 9 percent sold out. That came from a sign 10 within the property. All I can tell you is 11 where that edges out probably two or three 12 inches was probably a mis-measurement from 13 our sign company. I can have that reduced. 14 The sign should be -- the posts are still 15 there. The posts have never been changed. 16 We just were fortunate to become FHA 17 approved which helps a lot from a financing 18 standpoint when we reach the 50 percent 19 status. And obviously with 108 units we are 20 just over that 50 percent. 21 But I think where it says turn right 22 on 13 Mile, which I know it's probably tough 23 to read here, but that's what this says, 24 turn right on 13 Mile right there. I think
64 1 our sign guy just made it about two or three 2 inches wider than it should have been on 3 each side. But we can have the definitely 4 reduced. I have no problem making that as 5 part of the motion. I apologize for that. 6 MR. BOULARD: I just wanted to confirm 7 that we were using the right numbers. 8 MR. KASSAB: Definitely. The sign 9 dimensions were as presented. And I am sure 10 of that, by the way. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 12 Mr. Ghannam? 13 MEMBER GHANNAM: So, that leads me to 14 my question. Do you want the sign that's 15 shown on the board in Exhibit B or do you 16 want the sign that's in Exhibit C? 17 MR. KASSAB: The sign that we have 18 right here, and I wasn't aware that you were 19 looking at the content more than the 20 dimensions. The content as well as the 21 dimensions. 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: My question is what 23 are you proposing? Because you have given 24 us Exhibit C which is the, I guess, the bare
65 1 bones sign, and then Exhibit B which we have 2 up on the overhead right now has all these 3 additional signs attached to it. 4 MR. KASSAB: Yeah, what we have done 5 over time is once we became FHA approved we 6 use that as a marketing tool because M5 has 7 60,000 or 70,000 cars a day, just to place 8 that over the sign. I would prefer if we 9 could keep the sign that we have. There is 10 really nothing that's going to change from 11 this going forward with the three and a half 12 percent down unless FHA changes their 13 standards to four percent or five percent or 14 two percent we just may change that. But 15 the sign that you have here is the one that 16 we would be seeking approval for. 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: I guess my question 18 to the City is, is this within -- or what 19 are the dimensions of this and how many 20 square foot is this and so forth? 21 MR. BOULARD: I think the variance 22 request to the best of my knowledge is for 23 this sign. 24 MR. KASSAB: Correct.
66 1 MR. BOULARD: Right? 2 MR. KASSAB: Same dimension of that 3 sign, correct, sir. Obviously the language 4 within the sign, and I wasn't aware that the 5 language within the sign was going to be 6 looked at as opposed to the sign dimensions. 7 MR. BOULARD: And I guess there are 8 two questions. One, does the Board care 9 what it says on the sign versus the size? 10 And, two, the reason that I brought it up 11 was because this sign here looks like 12 somebody has done their best to try to get 13 the attention and maybe it got a little 14 bigger and I wanted to verify that it was 15 going back to the original size. So, 16 assuming that that's the case -- 17 MR. KASSAB: That is the case. 18 MR. BOULARD: -- I think we're in good 19 grounds on the basis of the advertisement. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: You want the sign 21 dimensions that you are showing on the board 22 right now? 23 MR. KASSAB: Yes. 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: But it's going to
67 1 look like it does right now? 2 MR. KASSAB: Yes, sir. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: And you're going to 4 reduce it to the -- 5 MR. KASSAB: Yes. We'll have that 6 done right away. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. That's all the 8 questions that I have. 9 MR. KASSAB: Thank you. 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 11 Mr. Bauer? 12 MEMBER BAUER: I have a question. You 13 said go ahead with the sign including the 14 things below, am I correct? 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'm sorry? I didn't 17 really give an opinion. I just wanted to 18 know what his presentation was. To me the 19 content was important to find out what 20 you're advertising so we know what we are 21 approving and so forth. If what you are 22 requesting is what you have there right now, 23 although reduced. The requested size, the 24 requested dimensions, I wouldn't have a
68 1 problem. 2 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible.) 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: Well, that's the 4 requested dimensions. 5 MR. KASSAB: The dimensions as you 6 have there won't change. Our sign guy must 7 have taken some liberty where it says turn 8 right on 13 Mile. The only thing I can 9 think of is he made it bigger than it should 10 have been as opposed to cutting off the 11 edges because if you look closely on the 12 picture you can cut off the edges and it 13 won't affect the sign where it comes out two 14 or three inches on both sides. And so where 15 it says turn right on 13 Mile, we'll have 16 him shave that down. Probably will have our 17 superintendant with a hacksaw shave it down. 18 MEMBER GHANNAM: My comment was, 19 assuming that's the case I would have no 20 problem with another two-year extension. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. 22 Cassis? 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, Mr. 24 Kassab seems to be very forthright in his
69 1 presentation. This is nothing but an 2 extension of an existing sign that we had 3 approved before. It seems like they are 4 abiding by whatever we have granted them 5 before. I see no reason why we shouldn't 6 approve an extension of this sign. 7 Regardless of what they are going to write 8 in that sign, it's still the same square 9 footage and Mr. Kassab is saying he will 10 shave it if need be. 11 MR. KASSAB: If need be we will be 12 more than happy to do that. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Gillette or? I would 14 go along with the extension. 15 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. 16 Anybody else? Anybody making a motion? 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'll make it. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: Go ahead. 20 MEMBER KRIEGER: In case number: 21 09-035 on 40812 West Thirteen Mile Road for 22 Lennox Park, I move to grant the variance to 23 allow the continued placement of the revised 24 sign over size/height real estate marketing
70 1 sign M5 for Lennox Park in accordance to the 2 dimensions that he stated that he would do 3 and as previous members have stated in that 4 regard. 5 That the request is exceptional 6 and unique to its property. And failure to 7 grant relief will unreasonably prevent and 8 limit the use of the property. And it is 9 not incompatible or unreasonably interfering 10 with adjacent or surrounding properties. 11 And it would be in the spirit of the 12 Ordinance. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: Oh, I forgot the two 16 years. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Two years. Okay. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Second again. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 20 Motion has been made by Ms. Krieger and 21 seconded by Mr. Bauer. If there is no 22 further discussion? Seeing none, Ms. 23 Martin, will you please call the roll. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer?
71 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MR. KASSAB: Thank you so much. Have 15 a good evening. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Moving along to 17 the next case. Case number: 09-036, 28175 18 Cabot Drive, Art Institute of Michigan. 19 Okay, sir, come to the podium and please 20 identify yourself. Give your name and 21 address and if you are not an attorney, 22 please be sworn in by our Secretary. 23 MR. BLASHAK: I am not an attorney. 24 My name is Ted Blashak. I live at 48005
72 1 Gladstone, Canton, Michigan, 48188. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 3 to tell the truth on case: 09-036? 4 MR. BLASHAK: I do. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 Please make your presentation. 7 MR. BLASHAK: Is there a switch on 8 this? Good evening, ladies and gentleman. 9 My name is Ted Blashak, as I mentioned 10 earlier. I am the president of the Art 11 Institute of Michigan. I am excited to be 12 here. It is one more step in us getting 13 closer and closer and engrained more into 14 the Novi Community. I don't know how much 15 you all might know about us, but this is our 16 facility. Some of you may have driven by. 17 I know the packets have been distributed. 18 To the right hand side of that picture 19 is where we are planning on placing the 20 student generated artwork for our graphic 21 design program. One of the things I think 22 is kind of germane to this is an 23 understanding of who we are and what we do. 24 We are a small private accredited
73 1 college. We are located here in Novi which 2 is the reason why I'm up here. We have been 3 open since November of 2007, so we're 4 somewhat new to Novi, but not new to higher 5 education. We offer associate and 6 baccalaureate programs in the culinary and 7 applied commercial arts. And that's where 8 some of this artwork is generated from. 9 It's from our general students. 10 Currently we have about 530 students 11 and we should peak up to around 650. We are 12 a growing institution of higher education 13 here in Novi and very proud to be here. 14 It's been a wonderful two years. 15 These are the various degree programs 16 that we offer at the college. You can see 17 two that are bold, in bold print Visual 18 Communications a Bachelor of Fine Arts and 19 an Associate of Applied Science in Graphic 20 Design. About 25 percent of our student 21 population reside in these two programs 22 which we have a fair amount of artwork that 23 is generated. 24 A lot of what goes on in our
74 1 curriculum is real world applications of 2 what goes on in the classroom. So, 75 3 percent of the curriculum generates some 4 type of artwork or some type of food, memo, 5 business plan, et cetera. 6 What we try to do is we have our 7 instructors, and our academic directors 8 choose exceptional artwork. And then it's 9 put out to our hallways. It's put out into 10 various areas where we sit or would make the 11 most sense. At times it's in someone's 12 basement. They will call up and say, hey, 13 can you have your interior designer do 14 something for us to a 5,000 square foot 15 house, a 2,500 square foot footprint? Sure, 16 we can get an interior design student to do 17 that. 18 At times we'll have someone call us 19 from the City of Novi. Can you help us 20 redesign a cover for an Economic Development 21 brochure? Or most recently, to help us with 22 the pamphlets for our play brochures. And 23 that goes straight to our graphic design 24 students. We also have people request, hey,
75 1 can you help us to do some exterior signage. 2 Some of those pieces are taken into 3 play. Each year we do poster competitions 4 and a lot of them circle around art and the 5 impact art has on our society. As you can 6 see on the board it's a sample of what goes 7 on inside the walls where an interior 8 application goes on in our classrooms. With 9 the signs beneath it it shows the students, 10 the instructor, the class. And the student 11 is allowed to put that in their portfolio. 12 They take pictures of it. They are very 13 proud of that application. 14 For some of our poster applications, 15 we can't do this in our hallways. And we 16 are getting ready to launch a sculpture 17 garden around the college and this is an 18 adjacent piece to this in the front of the 19 college which is three poles. Really, what 20 we are asking for in the variance is for us 21 to be able to place three pieces of student 22 artwork in front of our college with the 23 student's name, the instructor's name and 24 the class.
76 1 It's for the students' benefit and the 2 college's benefit in taking a look at being 3 able to show them that they can place these 4 banners, this artwork out in front of the 5 college. I do have some examples of the 6 exact class going through this and it hasn't 7 been selected yet. I am going to have our 8 art director hand each one of you a packet 9 if you are interested in looking at the 10 artwork that was generated for this specific 11 project. It's the first time we're doing 12 this in Novi. So, you will see student 13 artwork in there. The cover page is from 14 the class and it's the exact artwork. 15 You might notice there are a couple of 16 places where there may be some missing 17 apostrophes, so these are graded student 18 artwork pieces. Students receive the 19 feedback. What you are getting right now is 20 a clip of what was handed in. 21 Our plan is to select exceptional 22 student work every six months and to place 23 that in front of the college. Of course, 24 with the approval of Northern Equities Group
77 1 who is our property management group and, of 2 course, with your approval hopefully for a 3 variance. 4 As you can see that's a sample of what 5 it might look like. A little different than 6 what you might have in your planning piece. 7 The markups really are designed to really 8 mirror the small signs that are inside the 9 college and so it's a very small Art 10 Institute of Michigan, and then much larger 11 is the student name, the instructor name and 12 the class. 13 This was one of my favorites. 14 Actually it was one of my wife's favorites 15 as well as we were going through them. "Art 16 is Alive in Novi" was the theme for that 17 class. "Life is Better with Art in it." I 18 know in your packet you have our 19 petitioner's request which is what I have on 20 the board here as well as the City of Novi 21 code. 22 I am open for any questions or 23 comments. 24 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Is
78 1 there anybody in the audience who would like 2 to address the Board regarding this case? 3 Please come forward, identify yourself and 4 be sworn in by our Secretary. 5 MR. HUGHES: Good evening. My name is 6 Brian Hughes and I am here representing 7 Northern Equities Group. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 9 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-036? 10 MR. HUGHES: I do. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 12 MR. HUGHES: As the landlord for the 13 Art Institute of Michigan I am here to say 14 that Northern Equities Group supports the 15 idea of putting the artwork and displaying 16 that on the eastside of the building. We 17 feel it would be a great addition to the 18 park and we're proud and happy to have them 19 as one of our tenants. And I will say their 20 attendance is doing extremely well and 21 growing here in Novi. Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 Okay, seeing nobody else? Member Bauer, do 24 we have any correspondence?
79 1 MR. BOULARD: Just a couple brief 2 comments. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: One second. 4 MR. BOULARD: Oh, sorry. 5 MEMBER BAUER: Nine notices were 6 mailed. No responses. Two returned. 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 8 Okay, go ahead. 9 MR. BOULARD: You sure? 10 (Interposing)(Unintelligible). 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, I beg your 12 pardon. I didn't realize you were also 13 making a presentation. Go ahead. 14 MS. FOMIN: Hi, I'm Elizabeth Fomin. 15 I am the director for the Graphic Design and 16 Web Design Program. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 18 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-036? 19 MS. FOMIN: Yes, I do. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 21 MS. FOMIN: You need my address? 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Go ahead. 23 MS. FOMIN: 869 Huntington Drive in 24 South Lyon, Michigan. I have been working
80 1 with the Art Institute for six months now as 2 the director and over a year as an 3 instructor. And I would just have to say 4 what a wonderful student focused environment 5 it really is. I have been teaching in the 6 Detroit area for almost 10 years at a number 7 of different institutions. And the reason 8 that I came to the Art Institute was because 9 the focus is very targeted to the students' 10 needs and to the industry's needs and there 11 is no distractions as there might be in 12 other institutions. It's all about the 13 students. Any questions? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 MS. FOMIN: I would like for you to 16 meet one of our students if that's okay? 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. Now, 18 one more. 19 MS. RAKOZZI (ph): Hello, I am Renee 20 Rakozzi. I am a student of the Art 21 Institute. I have worked under Fomin and 22 also designed a few of the banners that you 23 see. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm
81 1 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-036? 2 MS. RAKOZZI: I do. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Please continue. 4 MS. RAKOZZI: I just have to say that 5 having an opportunity to display our work is 6 absolutely wonderful for the students. I 7 know especially a lot of members or my class 8 feel the same way. Knowing that we're 9 designing something that actually goes 10 towards part of our school is just a 11 wonderful feeling of commitment and feeling 12 that we're part of something rather than 13 just handing in homework. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 15 Thank you. 16 MS. REZOEKI: You're welcome. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All right. Have 18 I missed anybody now? Okay. 19 Let's go ahead with Mr. Boulard now 20 finally. 21 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. Just a 22 couple of points. We only have one Art 23 Institute in the city of Novi so this is 24 somewhat unique. Also, the property is
82 1 setback from a thoroughfare and residential 2 area, so it's not like someone is going to 3 have these banners flapping in the breeze 4 while they are sitting at the side of the 5 pool. 6 One of the things you may have noticed 7 is that we did waive the requirement for the 8 mock up sign since it would be fairly 9 complicated to put them up. One issue that 10 I did try to speak to was that at the point 11 that the signs are put up we need 12 verification that the light poles would hold 13 them up just to make sure they are safe. 14 But I don't foresee that as being an issue. 15 Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 17 Well, just let me be the first one being the 18 chairman to say congratulations. It's a 19 wonderful idea. My only regret is you are 20 putting it in a place where this is not a 21 lot of public traffic there. Perhaps you 22 will find a way of putting it where it 23 becomes more visible where it would be in 24 your own campus so that everybody can enjoy
83 1 the art and appreciate what you are teaching 2 and the students are creating. 3 Having said that, I will open up to 4 discussion for the Board. Yes, Mr. Cassis? 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Well said, Mr. 6 Chairman. Shame on me, I didn't know that 7 you had been there. As a very avid admirer 8 of art and having a son who is a graphic 9 designer, and you will see his work in the 10 Detroit Symphony pamphlet that is coming 11 out. 12 MR. BLASHAK: Wonderful. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: So tell me if you 14 approve or not. He has been doing 15 symphonies throughout the country. 16 Anyhow, regarding this application. 17 This is wonderful. I mean if art is so 18 great, let us declare it to the whole world. 19 Why keep it inside? And to have it really 20 be enjoyed by the campus, at least, that is 21 a good sign. My suggestion in the future is 22 you may want to bring your exhibits here to 23 the atrium. Of course, the City would 24 probably work on something like that.
84 1 MR. BLASHAK: We would love a project 2 like that. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, we allow 4 restaurants to bring out into the open 5 around the sidewalk, bring tables and so on 6 and have people come and enjoy the outside. 7 We allow the supermarket to bring out fruits 8 and vegetables and all of that, so I see no 9 difference here. In fact, it's a great 10 idea, and maybe rotating those beautiful 11 things, I am admiring all of them. I don't 12 know which one to prefer over the other. 13 So, my compliments to all of you. And good 14 luck to you. And we hope that you stay for 15 a long time here and nourish all kinds of 16 students in their endeavor. 17 How many students do you have right 18 now? 19 MR. BLASHAK: About 530 right now. 20 Our plan is to be here a very long, long 21 time. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: My God, that is 23 wonderful. 24 MR. BLASHAK: I will tell you, being
85 1 in Novi, the location, working with the 2 City, the community it's been overwhelming, 3 it's been overwhelmingly positive. I think 4 the impact with people coming to school, we 5 will be starting continuing education 6 classes in about a year. We are adding a 7 third kitchen to our culinary program. We 8 will be opening a student run restaurant in 9 our culinary program that have limited hours 10 available. We have got multiple permanent 11 installations at the Detroit Medical Center. 12 We are looking for more permanent 13 installation opportunities for our students. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: Not too far from Walsh 15 College. 16 MR. BLASHAK: Wonderful college. 17 MEMBER CASSIS: And that has been a 18 great, great asset to our community. So, we 19 wish you very well. 20 MR. BLASHAK: Thank you very much. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Good luck to you. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 23 Mr. Ibe? 24 MEMBER IBE: I too will reecho the
86 1 comments made by the previous speakers. I 2 believe that the Art Institute is certainly 3 a unique program and the only one in the 4 city. So, I have no objections to 5 supporting your variance. I love art. I 6 support art. I collect art. So, I 7 understood art. So, I definitely think this 8 is a bit of fresh air for the city and if 9 not for the adjacent communities as well. 10 It's certainly good that your school takes a 11 good role in trying to promote the students' 12 work. I think that's quite unique all by 13 itself. It's actually a way to encourage 14 students to come there to know if you work 15 hard, you just might get your work product 16 displayed publically for everyone to see. 17 It's great. 18 I have no objections to this 19 institute. Outside of any other comments I 20 would love to make a motion. 21 MR. BLASHAK: Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anybody else? 23 Go ahead and make a motion. 24 MEMBER IBE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. In
87 1 case number: 09-036 at 28175 Cabot Drive, 2 the Art Institute of Michigan, I move that 3 we approve the variance as requested based 4 on the fact that the request is based upon 5 circumstances of features that are 6 exceptional and unique to the property and 7 do not result from conditions that exist 8 generally in the City or that are self 9 created. 10 The failure to grant relief will 11 unreasonably prevent the use of the property 12 and will result in substantially more than a 13 mere inconvenience or inability to attain a 14 higher economic or financial return. 15 A grant of relief will not result in a 16 use of structure that is incompatible with 17 or unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 18 surrounding properties. And that approving 19 this is not inconsistent with the spirit of 20 the Ordinance. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. I 23 just have one question for our counsel. 24 They are going to change the banners, so
88 1 this is not a changing copy kind of sign is 2 it? 3 MEMBER BAUER: This is art. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I just want to 5 make sure that nobody objects to it later 6 on. 7 MR. BOULARD: If I can jump in. 8 Changeable copy changes in a matter of 9 minutes as opposed to days or weeks. I 10 assume you are not going to change these 11 more than once a day, correct? 12 MR. BLASHAK: The banners? 13 MR. BOULARD: Yes. 14 MR. BLASHAK: No. Once every six 15 months right now is the plan. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 17 All right, is there anything further? Yes, 18 Mr. Ghannam? 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: If I could suggest an 20 amendment that, number one, it should be 21 subject to the structural integrity of the 22 poles as our city advisor has suggested. 23 And I don't have a problem instead of 24 limiting this to a number of years, to the
89 1 period of time that this particular tenant 2 will be in the building. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: At their 4 discretion, yes. Very good. 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: If that's acceptable. 6 MEMBER IBE: It is acceptable. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Are they going to be 8 limited to a time? 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Well, I suggest that 10 it would be limited to the time that the 11 tenant is in that particular building. So, 12 if they theoretically left and another 13 tenant came in they can't put up these types 14 signs. Not that they would. This is just 15 for this particular tenant. 16 MR. BLASHAK: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Is it okay with 18 you both? 19 MEMBER IBE: Absolutely. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Any 22 further discussion? Seeing none, Ms. 23 Martin, would you please call the roll. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer?
90 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 14 Congratulations and thank 15 you for bringing in a breath of fresh air. 16 MR. BLASHAK: Thank you very much, 17 ladies and gentleman. Have a good evening. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 19 MR. BLASHAK: If you get a chance come 20 on by. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You don't want 22 these back do you? 23 MR. BLASHAK: No, they are for you, 24 sir. Thank you.
91 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. All 2 right coming on to the next case, 09-037 for 3 48320 West Nine Mile Road. Please identify 4 yourself. State your name and address and 5 if you are not an attorney please be sworn 6 in by our Secretary. 7 MR. BROCK: Ken Brock, resident, 48320 8 West Nine Mile, the party requesting the 9 variance. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm 11 to tell the truth regarding case: 09-037? 12 MR. BROCK: I do. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you, sir. 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Go 15 ahead. 16 MR. BROCK: The intent on this 17 variance was first to assess the increase in 18 the square footage for my detached accessory 19 structure. I live in a log home. This is 20 my retreat. It's isolated, if you will. 21 It's got substantial setbacks. When I first 22 looked at expanding on the accessory 23 building, I looked at it and I said, you 24 know, what I've got is a 4:12 pitch,
92 1 basically a high-end pole barn with wood 2 siding, et cetera. 3 I didn't consider that befitting 4 of the character of the setting that I was 5 trying to achieve, if you will, a Terry 6 Redlin. So, I am looking for something to 7 compliment the home. And in doing so I look 8 at it from a period of structure standpoint, 9 and a carriage house was more fitting. 10 Difficult to say, but a carriage house is 11 always a fairly high building. 12 Relative to the home, my log home is a 13 two-story cape cod style structure and it's 14 raised at that. So, the house sits quite 15 high and even with the variance and height 16 I'm looking for for the Gamberale-style 17 structure, it would be comparable to the 18 house itself. In looking at building 19 character into this thing, we've got a 20 basement on the house, the veneer is split 21 face granite. That would be complimented in 22 the out building as well, very much the same 23 character. The gables would be hooded. The 24 entire building is timber frame
93 1 construction. (Unintelligible), exposed 2 timber on the outside just like the house. 3 It will have a timber lodge entryway. 4 It is a one story structure and it is 5 quite high. And one tends to think well 6 why? When you walk in the Mayberry barn and 7 you look up at the Gamberale structure it's 8 just massive with open space, and that is 9 consistent with the character I'm trying to 10 achieve. 11 I am looking at 2,000 square feet. We 12 are saying that this is an addition because 13 I want to take just due to economics, take 14 the existing structure and slide it back in 15 the corner where it's out of view from the 16 house. Basically tuck it around behind the 17 addition structure or the barn or carriage 18 house. 19 I am asking for this variance 20 largely based on character, and the fact 21 that there are substantial setbacks, not 22 only in distance, but in green shield around 23 the entire thing. I do have as noted in the 24 application a couple of open sided covered
94 1 structures to house my hobby interest which 2 is wood and timber framing. And the intent 3 with those is that they go. I don't like 4 them, they are just a necessity short term 5 to get some formal under roof structure. 6 Any questions? 7 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: That's it? 8 Thank you. Is there anybody in the audience 9 who wants to say anything about this case? 10 (No response.) 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Seeing none, Mr. 12 Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Twenty-four notices 14 were mailed. Two anonymous responses. Four 15 returned. 16 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 17 Well, Mr. Boulard? 18 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. Just a 19 couple of things. The write up is fairly 20 lengthy in trying to address all of the 21 possible issues in the ordinance. We want 22 to confirm that when you are done there will 23 be two out buildings. 24 MR. BROCK: That's correct.
95 1 MR. BOULARD: Also, because of the 2 size of the buildings, a deed restriction 3 will be required before we issue building 4 permits to prevent division of a lot and 5 building of another house and so on in the 6 future with an out building of this size. 7 You mentioned that the building will be one 8 story and it has no additional height. 9 MR. BROCK: That is correct. 10 MR. BOULARD: I did have one question. 11 You had mentioned that this is a hobby, but 12 your website for your company list this 13 address as the address of your company. Is 14 this your business address also? 15 MR. BROCK: It's my address for my 16 office which I don't, I don't bring in 17 customers to it, it's just, I have to have a 18 mailing address for the business and my home 19 is my home office. 20 MR. BOULARD: So, what you do there 21 falls within the zoning ordinance in terms 22 of a home occupation in terms of not 23 bringing any equipment and things like that? 24 MR. BROCK: That is correct.
96 1 MR. BOULARD: Nothing else. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. 3 Well, I will open it up to the Board for 4 discussion. While they are looking. I was 5 there at the end of day when I got to look 6 at your place and I didn't see that there 7 was anything that was (unintelligible) with 8 your request in doing that myself. Yes, Mr. 9 Cassis? 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, Mr. 11 Chairman. Just to ask a couple of questions 12 to clarify. How many acre does you have on 13 the property? 14 MR. BROCK: Just over two and a half. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Two and a half acres. 16 I can see the dimensions here is quite an 17 extensive parcel of property. Let me 18 clarify with you. There is a structure that 19 says existing log house. That's stays? 20 MR. BROCK: That's my home, yes. I 21 hope it stays a very long time. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Then you say you have 23 a carriage house addition? 24 MR. BROCK: That is what I would like
97 1 to construct. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: That's what you want 3 to construct. How about the one that is 4 next to it which says relocate. What is 5 that? 6 MR. BROCK: That is my current garage. 7 It's 30 by 24 three stall garage. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Is that to be 9 eliminated? 10 MR. BROCK: We are just shifting it 11 back. But it will remain attached. It 12 comprises part of the total 2,000 square 13 feet. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: I see. It was farther 15 to this side and you are shifting it back to 16 locate the carriage house? 17 MR. BROCK: Yes, in front of it. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: It's a total kind of 19 rearrangements there and rebuilding of 20 different kind of items. 21 MR. BROCK: One of my hobby interests 22 is moving historic buildings such as your 23 township hall and prior to that, Mayberry. 24 I orchestrated that.
98 1 MEMBER CASSIS: I wish I knew you when 2 I moved the (unintelligible) house on Novi 3 Road and Grand River to make a parking lot. 4 Nobody would take it. Nobody would move it. 5 It was the oldest house in Novi. 6 Anyhow, these are the questions I 7 wanted to ask. I will wait for my 8 colleagues. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, thank you. 10 Yes, Ms. Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: I just wanted to know 12 for the variance the five feet, is that the 13 highest point of the carriage house? 14 MR. BOULARD: The definition of 15 building height is to the mid point of the 16 roof. So, if you were to take a look on the 17 second of the large sheets, you can see 18 under east elevation where there is a 19 dimension of 19 feet so the ridge will be 20 higher than that. But it's in the zoning 21 ordinance that's the definition of that. 22 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay, thank you. 23 That's the only question. Thank you. 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a question, if
99 1 I may. 2 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Ms. 3 Krieger? 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: The garage that you 5 are relocating are you going to continue to 6 use as a garage and use the carriage house 7 as living quarters? Or use all of it as a 8 garage? 9 MR. BROCK: It's all garage and 10 storage space. 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here in the other 12 part it says not to put a horse in it, and 13 that's the first thing I would probably do. 14 MR. BROCK: The only grazing area is 15 the tennis court. 16 MR. BOULARD: If your comment was 17 regarding the setback requirements in the 18 stables and so on, what that is in reference 19 to, there is a portion in the Ordinance that 20 says if there is to be livestock used such 21 as horses, that the setback needs to be to 22 at least 100 feet. That's not contemplated 23 here, so that's why we didn't request a 24 variance for that.
100 1 MR. BROCK: Virtually every inch of 2 this property is wooded with the exception 3 of the house, the tennis court and this 4 garage, densely wooded. 5 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Cassis? 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, while my 7 colleagues are still deliberating. You 8 know, I have seen acreages like that where 9 the petitioner comes in and starts splicing 10 up and making them two lots or three lots or 11 four lots. I got to admire what you are 12 doing. I mean, here you are, sure you are 13 violating certain ordinances or whatever, 14 which we will rectify here, but I think you 15 are saying this is a beautiful property, I 16 want to keep it like this. I don't want to 17 divide it into a subdivision. And believe 18 me, we have had something like that on Nine 19 Mile Road. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Oh, yes. Not 21 too far from this place actually. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Not too far is right. 23 So, my compliment to you. 24 Mr. Chairman, I don't see anything
101 1 wrong with this. In fact, he is enhancing 2 the value of this property and certainly Mr. 3 Levan (ph) will be after you for higher 4 taxes. So, I think all around I see, unless 5 my colleagues can point something to me that 6 I have not seen. I have looked at your 7 property, it's a lovely property. That's 8 all I got to say. 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, 10 Mr. Ghannam? 11 MEMBER GHANNAM: Sir, I also have no 12 problem with it as proposed. But I also am 13 in agreement with some city recommendations 14 that there will be conditions of deed 15 restrictions for appropriate whatever the 16 City needs in terms of lot splits, lack of 17 upper floor and Novi stock related uses. I 18 assume that's not problem with you? 19 MR. BROCK: That is not a problem. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yeah, I have no 21 problem with this either. 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: If I can make a 24 motion?
102 1 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Sure. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: In case number: 3 09-037 for 48320 West Nine Mile Road west of 4 Beck and north of Nine Mile Road I move to 5 approve the request for the variance of five 6 feet. My question is, do I have to read all 7 the comments or just in accordance also what 8 is stated in City of Novi staff comments 9 regarding the request? 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Maybe you could 11 include the no livestock and all that kind 12 of thing. 13 MEMBER KRIEGER: In that the accessory 14 structure would have its deed restriction, 15 the lot will require a deed restriction from 16 future building in accordance with 2503, in 17 that the deed would not be able to keep -- 18 use it as a stable, or horse trading is not 19 contemplated. And that the proposed 20 construction is well back from the property 21 lines. And it is unique for this property. 22 There is adequate light and air. It doesn't 23 increase fire danger or public safety. It 24 will increase the property value including
103 1 the surrounding area. And the spirit of the 2 zoning ordinance would be observed. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Very good. The 5 motion has been made and seconded. Do I see 6 any further? Yes, Mr. Ghannam? 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: My suggestion if this 8 would be okay with the Board that we add 9 specific conditions that after construction 10 there is going to be two accessory 11 structures in accordance with the City 12 Ordinance. And that there be the deed 13 restriction as mentioned. That there be no 14 upper floor on the accessory structure and 15 no livestock related uses. 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Okay. 18 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yep. 19 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Okay, that has 20 been accepted by both. Very good. Anything 21 else? Anybody else have any comment? 22 Seeing none, Ms. Martin, would you call the 23 roll. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Bauer?
104 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 7 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Sanghvi? 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: It passes. 15 MR. BROCK: Thank you. I appreciate 16 it. And you are all welcomed come at any 17 time. Just give us a call. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: The last thing 19 on this list is looking at the calendar, 20 correct? 21 MS. MATTHEWS: May I ask you a 22 question? I am Carroll Matthews. I live at 23 41081 South McMahon Circle. And I thought 24 there was going to be a discussion here
105 1 tonight about the addition that my neighbor 2 behind me is putting on his house, the 3 family room behind Howard Turek. 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: On Malott? 5 MS. MATTHEWS: Did I miss it? 6 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 7 MS. MATTHEWS: Was he first on the 8 agenda and I was late? 9 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 10 MEMBER BAUER: It was the first case. 11 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It was number 12 one on the agenda. 13 MS. MATTHEWS: Pardon me? 14 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: It was number 15 one on the agenda. 16 MS. MATTHEWS: Last time it was number 17 four and I didn't get here. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: No. Today it 19 was number one. 20 MS. MATTHEWS: Well, was it approved, 21 the addition? 22 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. 23 MS. MATTHEWS: And did you do anything 24 about the letter that Howard sent about that
106 1 he didn't want him to be able to put in a 2 swimming pool? 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We can only 4 discuss what request has been made to us for 5 the variance. That is our terms of 6 reference for this Board so we cannot 7 stipulate anything other than what he has 8 asked for. 9 MS. MATTHEWS: Just for the addition? 10 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yes. So, we 11 can't go beyond that. 12 MS. MATTHEWS: Oh, I see. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: We don't have 14 authority to do that. 15 MS. MATTHEWS: I am sorry I missed it 16 now. I sat through all of that. 17 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: I wondered, I 18 have been watching you here for a long time. 19 MS. MATTHEWS: Okay, thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: You are welcome. 21 Okay, coming back to the item. 22 Having a chance to review the calendar for 23 the next year. I personally have no problem 24 with the alteration.
107 1 MS. MARTIN: It's the same as this 2 year. 3 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Yeah, it is, 4 basically the same thing. So, we can go 5 ahead, and I don't think we need a motion 6 for that. We can go ahead and give it to 7 them so they can put it in the calendar for 8 printing. 9 MS. MARTIN: Okay, thank you. 10 MR. BOULARD: Do we need a motion for 11 that? 12 MS. KUDLA: We don't need to make one. 13 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: Anything else? 14 Any other business? Seeing none, I will 15 entertain a motion to adjourn. 16 MEMBER BAUER: Adjourn. 17 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second. 18 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: So moved and 19 seconded. All those in favor say aye? 20 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 21 CHAIRPERSON SANGHVI: All those 22 opposed same sign. The meeting is adjourned. 23 Thank you. 24
108 1 (The meeting was adjourned at 2 8:55 p.m.) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
109 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 5 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 6 that I have recorded stenographically the 7 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 8 above-entitled matter at the time and place 9 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 10 certify that the foregoing transcript, 11 consisting of (91) typewritten pages, is a 12 true and correct transcript of my said 13 stenographic notes. 14 15 16 17 18 19 _____________________________ 20 Mona L. Talton, 21 Certified Shorthand Reporter 22 23 24 September 11, 2009
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