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View Agenda for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, March 16, 2010. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: 1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, May 11, 2010 3 7:00 p.m. 4 - - - 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Good 6 evening. It is 7 p.m., and I'd like to 7 call to order the May 11 regular meeting 8 of the City of Novi Zoning Board of 9 Appeals. 10 Would everyone please rise for 11 the Pledge of Allegiance. 12 Member Krieger, please lead us. 13 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge 14 allegiance to the flag of the United 15 States of America. And to the republic 16 for which it stands, one nation, under 17 God, indivisible, with liberty and 18 justice for all. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: 20 Ms. Martin, would you please call the 21 roll. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis?
1 MEMBER CASSIS: Here. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 5 MEMBER IBE: Present. 6 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Present. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Here. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 13 MEMBER GEDEON: Here. 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, we 15 do have a quorum, and the meeting is now 16 in session. 17 As a reminder, please make sure 18 all cellphone and pager ringers are 19 turned off at this time. 20 At this time, I'd also like to 21 go over some of the meeting rules. A 22 copy of the entire public meeting rules 23 of conduct is available next to the 24 chamber entrance door.
1 The Zoning Board of Appeals is 2 a hearing board empowered by the City of 3 Novi to hear appeals, seeking variances 4 from the existing zoning Novi ordinances. 5 It takes a vote of at least four members 6 to approve a variance request, and a 7 majority of members present to deny a 8 variance. 9 Tonight we have a full board, 10 so all the decisions will be final. 11 Individual applicants may take 12 up to five minutes, and groups may take 13 up to ten minutes to address the board. 14 The next item on the agenda is 15 the approval of the agenda. Are there 16 any additions, deletions or changes to 17 the proposed agenda? 18 MS. MARTIN: No, there is not. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 20 Seeing none, I will entertain a motion to 21 approve. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: So move. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. We
1 have a motion and a second. All those in 2 favor, please signify by saying aye. 3 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All those 5 opposed, signify by saying no. We have 6 an approved agenda. 7 Next is the approval of the 8 meeting minutes from the April 13, 2010 9 meeting. Are there any changes to the 10 minutes? 11 Seeing none, I will entertain a 12 motion to approve the minutes. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: So move. 14 MEMBER IBE: Second. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. All 16 those in favor, please signify by saying 17 aye. 18 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All 20 opposed, say no. The meeting minutes 21 have been approved. 22 Next on the agenda is the 23 public remarks section of the meeting. 24 Is there anyone in the audience who
1 wishes to make any comments not 2 pertaining to any matter on the agenda 3 tonight, please come forward. 4 Seeing none, the public remarks 5 section of the meeting is closed. 6 This brings us to the cases on 7 the agenda this evening. 8 The first case is Case No. 9 ZBA10-009 from MacKenzie North Technology 10 Center. Brian J. Hughes of HCP Land, 11 LLC, is requesting a variance to allow an 12 extension of ZBA08-066 for a 13 32-square-foot leasing sign for MacKenzie 14 North Technology Center. 15 The property is zoned OST and 16 is located west of Haggerty Road and 17 north of Thirteen Mile Road. 18 Is the petitioner here? 19 MR. HUGHES: Yes, I am. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 21 Please state your name and address for 22 the record. 23 MR. HUGHES: Brian Hughes, 24 32870 Wing Lake Road, Franklin,
1 Michigan. 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: If you are 3 not an attorney, please raise your right 4 hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 5 MR. IBE: In Case No. 10-009, 6 MacKenzie North Technology Center, do you 7 swear or affirm to tell the truth in this 8 case? 9 MR. HUGHES: I do. 10 MR. IBE: Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 12 You can proceed with your presentation. 13 MR. HUGHES: I'm here 14 representing HCP Land, and approximately 15 over a year ago we were here asking for a 16 variance that would allow us to have a 17 larger than what's allowed sign for 18 leasing purposes for a building we 19 propose to build at the intersection of 20 MacKenzie and Haggerty Road. 21 And, unfortunately, as 22 everybody knows, the economy has been 23 rather difficult, and we have yet to 24 build this building, our sister building,
1 that's planned for across the street. We 2 did take that sign down a year ago, but 3 this one went up with the interest and 4 expectation that at some point in the 5 future we'll be building the building. 6 We have had an extension from 7 the planning department as far as the 8 building permit and for the site plan 9 approval, and that's good for another 10 year, as well. 11 So, it's our hope, and we are 12 seeing some encouraging signs that there 13 is some movement, and we would like to 14 leave this sign up at least for another 15 year. And, if possible, we would like a 16 two-year extension. But we are asking 17 for a minimum of a one-year. 18 If there is any questions? 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 20 Thank you. 21 Is there anyone in the audience 22 who wishes to address the board regarding 23 this case? Seeing none, will the 24 secretary read any correspondence into
1 the record 2 MR. IBE: In Case No. 10-009, 3 MacKenzie North Technology, 39 notices 4 were mailed. Zero responses, three mail 5 returned. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 7 Does the building department or the city 8 attorney wish to make any comments? 9 MS. KUDLA: No. 10 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, 12 thank you. Then, at this time, I will 13 turn this matter over to the board for 14 discussion. 15 MEMBER GEDEON: I guess I will 16 start. 17 In the past year -- let me back 18 up a moment. Is it commonplace to put 19 the sign up before the building is 20 constructed? Is that the intent that you 21 are finding tenants -- prospective 22 tenants before you even build a building? 23 MR. HUGHES: Yeah. This is 24 actually -- we do planning in advance in
1 anticipation of our inventories 2 (unintelligible), and it's leased at 70 3 percent, 75 percent, 90 percent. 4 And, in our case, we are still a little 5 bit above 90 percent leased. And we have 6 to have product available for tenants. 7 Because the process takes anywhere from 8 six months to a year. Especially if you 9 are doing new construction. 10 This we found to be helpful to 11 do a pictorial, because it gives the 12 prospective tenants an idea of what the 13 building will look like. This is common. 14 We have been doing these pictorial signs 15 for years. 16 MEMBER GEDEON: Do you have a 17 sense that having the sign in the past 18 year has actually attracted any potential 19 tenants? 20 MR. HUGHES: There have been 21 inquiries, yes. But most of the tenants 22 we have been leasing to in the last year, 23 year and a half, have been for buildings 24 that have already been built.
1 MEMBER GEDEON: Is there a 2 particular reason why the sign is double 3 the allowable size? 4 MR. HUGHES: Well, the reason 5 being is in the past we have done 6 pictorial signs that are larger, and we 7 are trying to draw attention to this 8 particular area, which is part of our 9 phase two development. It's on the east 10 side towards the north end and a little 11 less visible. 12 Ryder Logistics is a building 13 we built at Thirteen and Cabot, and it is 14 quite a presence. It's a three-story 15 building, 150,000 square feet, so this is 16 one that we are trying to bring more 17 attention to. 18 MEMBER GEDEON: What other 19 forms of marketing do you have for these 20 potential buildings? 21 MR. HUGHES: We have a website, 22 which is also located on the sign that 23 draws attention. We are well known in 24 the broker communities. There is a lot
1 of brokers that are also, you know, 2 bringing prospective tenants. But we 3 still rely a lot on drive-through and 4 drive-by traffic. 5 MEMBER GEDEON: Thank you. 6 MR. HUGHES: You're welcome. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Next? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 9 Mr. Chair. Everybody knows about the 10 economy and difficulty bringing or 11 leasing anything. And I think this is a 12 problem, which is not only particular to 13 Novi, but to all over Michigan. And they 14 have a genuine problem, and I personally 15 have no objection granting the request 16 for continuing the sign for a period of 17 one year as they have asked. Thank you. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 19 Member Sanghvi. Member Cassis. 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, I 21 reiterate my colleague's remarks, that 22 with the economy as it is, and this is 23 going to be a big project, big building. 24 And, naturally, they would want to inform
1 prospective leaser or lessee, what they 2 have to offer. And so I think a kind of 3 a sign like that that informs them is 4 pretty legitimate, if it is a little bit 5 big bigger than what the ordinance tells, 6 but I think with the immensity of the 7 project and also the way it sits on that 8 property, which is large property there. 9 I don't see being any problems 10 visual-wise to any -- any people driving 11 or obstruction of view or anything. 12 So, I would go along with the 13 extension on this. 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 15 Member Cassis. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, 17 Mr. Chair. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody 19 else? 20 Okay. Seeing that all board 21 members have had the opportunity to speak 22 in this matter, I will entertain a 23 motion. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: In the matter
1 of Case No. 10-009, MacKenzie North 2 Technology Center, I move to grant an 3 extension to this erection of this -- 4 continuance of this sign. The request is 5 based upon circumstances and features 6 that are exceptional and unique to the 7 property and do not result from 8 conditions that exist generally in the 9 city or that are self-created. 10 And the failure to grant the 11 relief will unreasonably prevent or limit 12 the use of the property and will result 13 in substantially more than mere 14 inconvenience or inability to attain a 15 higher economic financial return. 16 I think that sums it up, 17 anyhow. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: Would you want 21 to do a time limitation? 22 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, we 23 have been granting a year. But, let's 24 face it, let's do it for a year, anyhow.
1 But I can grant you that -- I can say 2 that in another year they will be coming 3 back. I hope not. I hope you go through 4 the whole thing with the building and 5 lease it and everything before a year, 6 but I just don't see it. But if that's 7 what you want to do, I will put it for a 8 year. 9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Is that okay? 11 MR. HUGHES: Yes. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 13 Sanghvi, is that okay with you? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's fine. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 16 motion. Any other discussion? If not, 17 Ms. Martin, please call the roll. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
1 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 7 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 9 Motion passes, seven-zero. 10 MR. HUGHES: Thanks very much. 11 MEMBER CASSIS: Good luck. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Next on 13 the agenda is Case No. ZBA09-042, 14 43025 to 43043 Grand River Avenue, Novi 15 Food Center. 16 The petitioner is requesting 17 setback variances to permit construction 18 of parking lot improvements and expansion 19 of the parking lot located in the front 20 yard of four existing retail buildings 21 located at 43025 to 43043 Grand River 22 Avenue. 23 The property is zoned TC-1, 24 Town Center, and is located on the south
1 side of Grand River Avenue between Sixth 2 Gate Road and Main Street. Various 3 retail tenants currently occupy the 4 property. 5 Would you please state your 6 name and address for the record, sir. 7 MR. KACHMAN: Yes, my name is 8 Ron Kachman. I'm with Design and 9 Construction Group, 291 Elmwood, Troy, 10 Michigan. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: If you are 12 not an attorney, please raise your hand 13 to be sworn in by our secretary. 14 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 15 09-042, 43025 through 43043 Grand River 16 Avenue, Novi Food Center, do you swear or 17 affirm to tell the truth in this case? 18 MR. KACHMAN: I do. 19 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: You may 21 proceed, sir. 22 MR. KACHMAN: Yes. We are 23 before you -- we have been granted 24 preliminary site plan approval on this
1 site, based upon the variances that we 2 were requesting. 3 The variances became not a 4 problem, but a situation that the 5 property -- the front of the buildings 6 are on the front property line, and there 7 was a vacated 42-foot right-of-way that 8 we occupied that the city attorney found 9 that when they vacated that right-of-way, 10 it wasn't I think part of the subdivision 11 that we are in. So, the city basically 12 owns that property, which created the 13 problem with the setbacks and the 14 additional parking. 15 I think, as you see in our 16 submittal, that we are extensively 17 remodeling the whole front of the 18 approach area, providing the landscaping, 19 a sidewalk. And in the back of the 20 building, we are also putting additional 21 parking and our loading zone, and also 22 for a trash enclosure in the back of the 23 building for additional parking for that 24 site.
1 We are a little on the short 2 side of the -- for parking, that's why we 3 are expanding it in the front and also in 4 the back. This -- the configuration you 5 see there will allow traffic to circulate 6 through the Novi Party Store and into 7 this site and, vice versa, and out 8 through the back. So, we feel that this 9 would be an improvement to the city's 10 scape along Grand River, and hope that 11 you will grant us this variance. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 13 Thank you. 14 MR. KACHMAN: Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is there 16 anyone in the audience who wishes to 17 address the board regarding this case? 18 Yes, ma'am, please come 19 forward. 20 MS. BUTTON: Good evening. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Will you 22 state your name and address be sworn 23 in. 24 MS. BUTTON: Rose Button. I
1 own 43089 Grand River, here in Novi. 2 Adjacent to the property we are talking 3 about. 4 Truly, I don't see too many 5 concerns about it. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We need to 7 swear you in first, ma'am. 8 MEMBER IBE: Could you please 9 raise your right hand. 10 MS. BUTTON: Right hand. 11 MEMBER IBE: In Case No. 12 09-042, 43025-43043 Grand River Avenue, 13 Novi Food Center, do you swear or affirm 14 to tell the truth in this case? 15 MS. BUTTON: Yes. 16 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Proceed, 18 ma'am. 19 MS. BUTTON: Okay. My building 20 is right next door to them. And that 21 42-foot easement that he's talking about 22 was abandoned by the state. And I forget 23 what year now, but at the time my father 24 petitioned and took ownership of the part
1 in front of our building. He also was 2 the one that built that what is called 3 the subdivision. 4 So, my only concern with doing 5 the way he has and, forgive me, I haven't 6 studied the grading too much, but as it 7 is right now, that property does drain 8 into my retention drains, which I can 9 check with the Department of Public 10 Works. They were out there about a 11 week-and-a-half ago, because my retention 12 drains were full and backing up into the 13 bathtubs into my apartment buildings 14 there. 15 The run-off is really coming 16 over into my retention area very badly. 17 So, if he goes ahead, just as long as he 18 makes sure that the grading sloped a 19 little more in a different direction, 20 into his catch basin, so it doesn't 21 naturally drain into mine, I think 22 everybody will be a little more happy. 23 And then the other concern I 24 have, the property line for the back of
1 my building is back there with that. 2 It's a pretty tree, but a bunch of weeds 3 and other debris that I'm not too happy 4 about, but at this point have not done 5 anything about. And there is -- it's 6 supposed to be an eight-foot utility 7 easement through there that's been used 8 as an easement to access the back of that 9 property many years. And my concern is, 10 will that property revert back onto my 11 site? Which is the way the original 12 surveying stakes were put in. And, if 13 so, would I be able to -- since he's got 14 a block, natural block, he's putting curb 15 and gutter, I believe, along there, can I 16 go ahead and landscape and maybe put my 17 dumpster back there in a covered area, 18 like I know you all would appreciate. 19 And those are the only concerns 20 I have with what he wants to do. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 22 Thank you. 23 Is there anyone else in the 24 audience who wishes to address the board?
1 Seeing none, will the secretary read any 2 correspondence regarding this case in the 3 record, please. 4 MEMBER IBE: ZBA09-042, 22 5 notices were mailed. Zero responses, one 6 mail return. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 8 Does the building department or city 9 attorney wish to add anything at this 10 time? 11 MR. BOULARD: I would like to 12 mention, Mark Spencer is here. He is 13 familiar with the project from the 14 planning process and would be able to 15 answer any questions. 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 17 Mr. Spencer, do you have anything you 18 wish to add at this time to the board? 19 MR. SPENCER: Sure. Unless you 20 would rather hear from the city attorney 21 first. 22 MS. KUDLA: It's up to you. I 23 can elaborate on right-of-way issue or -- 24 MR. SPENCER: Okay.
1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Whatever 2 you guys think will flow best. 3 MS. KUDLA: Basically, what's 4 going on is the road commission attempted 5 to vacate that right-of-way several years 6 back. But when we -- our office looked 7 at it, it appears that it's a platted 8 subdivision rather than a county 9 right-of-way. So there is a portion of 10 it that the city is still seeking at some 11 point to vacate and hopes to be able to 12 do that, but it hasn't been able to get 13 all the property owners in the 14 discussion. Because portions would have 15 to be quit-claimed back to the property 16 owners. So it's still the intent to do 17 that at some point, but it hasn't been 18 able to be accomplished yet. 19 So that's why the need for 20 this. And there will be license 21 agreements in place. Until such time 22 that's able to be completed and cost 23 access and easements, those will be 24 completed as part of the site plan
1 process. 2 I don't know if anyone has any 3 questions, I can elaborate on that. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, 5 thank you. 6 Mr. Spencer. 7 MR. SPENCER: Good evening. To 8 further that discussion, if I could ask 9 that the lights get lowered to see the 10 overhead here, we can explain that a 11 little bit further. 12 On the screen here you will see 13 an arrow with some lines drawn in it. 14 The dash lines are basically the 15 subdivision boundary lines, and you can 16 see, that the lot in question for the 17 food service parcels. Mrs. Button's 18 parcel, who you just heard from, and 19 there is a video store to the east of 20 that. Those parcels are in a different 21 subdivision. They are in the Novi Garden 22 Subdivision; whereas, the road 23 right-of-way was in the Novi Manor 24 Subdivision.
1 So by the Road Commission 2 vacating their highway easement, it 3 didn't transfer to the neighboring 4 property owners because it was in a 5 different subdivision. This is what the 6 city attorney has been working on, and we 7 very greatly would like to meet with 8 Mrs. Button or her attorney on this, too. 9 He's been trying to set up a meeting for 10 quite some time on this here to help 11 facilitate this. 12 Because this could benefit all 13 three of the property owners along this 14 frontage here by the city being able to 15 deed over this right-of-way to them as 16 part of their property. 17 Irrespective of that, there 18 still would have been a variance required 19 for this because of the parking lot and 20 the structure would still not meet 21 setback requirements. The drive access 22 aisles would still have been in there. 23 So this is the worst case scenario. 24 The property line is at the
1 front of the building, and this is the 2 greatest amount of variance that would be 3 required for this as the way it's 4 configured right now. 5 As the applicant mentioned, and 6 I will show you he's proposing some 7 improvements to the site. The city's 8 encouraged these improvements. The 9 applicant first came and had improvements 10 for the rear part of the parking lot. 11 The connection to the parking lot that 12 the city owns is kind of kitty-corner 13 behind the fire station and extends over 14 to Sixth Gate. 15 At that time we suggested to 16 the applicant that he work on the front 17 parking lot at the same time and make 18 some improvements there, because the cost 19 of mobilizing the equipment is probably 20 the biggest cost on these small projects. 21 And with the equipment already there in 22 place, this would be a natural and 23 economic time for him to do work on the 24 front yard, too. So, we encourage that.
1 And the planning staff is in 2 favor of these variances; we support 3 them. And we think this is going to be a 4 big improvement to the area. It's going 5 to bring that driveway across Grand River 6 to connect with the driveway on -- in 7 front of the party store itself. So it 8 will -- it also reduces the size of the 9 apron, so there is less chance people are 10 going to try to back up onto Grand River 11 here. We think it's going to provide 12 safety there. 13 Engineering has reviewed these 14 plans. As usual, they are going to make 15 sure the drainage doesn't affect 16 neighboring properties, so I'm sure 17 that's not going to be an issue. But we 18 relayed Mrs. Button's concerns to the 19 engineering department on this. 20 And I'm available if you have 21 any questions on this. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 23 Mr. Spencer. At this time, I will refer 24 this matter to the board for
1 discussion. 2 Ms. Skelcy. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: I wanted to let 4 Ms. Button know we are here about the 5 variances, not about issues regarding the 6 overflow of the water. However, I do 7 have a concern about that. Is that being 8 addressed by the city at all? 9 MR. BOULARD: I'm not -- I'm 10 not sure. I'm a little confused by why 11 water in the parking lot would cause the 12 storm system to cause back-up into the 13 sanitary system. But I will be happy to 14 speak to the utilities folks in the 15 morning about that. 16 MS. SKELCY: Okay. 17 MR. BOULARD: If I can ask, 18 have the utility folks been out to your 19 site? 20 MS. BUTTON: Yeah. We've got 21 it under control. If you do more paving 22 and you don't pay attention to that 23 drainage, that puts more over in there, 24 then there may be a problem. And I know
1 the engineers usually look at that pretty 2 closely, but I just wanted to raise that. 3 And there is one other thing I 4 didn't think. How are you planning to 5 get people from your -- 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Ma'am, excuse 7 me. Can you come to the podium? 8 MS. BUTTON: How are you 9 planning to have the people go from the 10 back parking lot up to the front of the 11 stores? I don't see any pedestrian 12 traffic for the front of the stores. 13 MR. KACHMAN: The driveway and 14 through the Novi Party Store is owned by 15 the same people that own all of it. 16 MS. BUTTON: Right. 17 MR. KACHMAN: So they come out 18 and go that way, or they go right out to 19 the back. 20 MS. BUTTON: Okay. All right. 21 MR. KACHMAN: It's all curved 22 along that, your property line, also. 23 MS. BUTTON: Right. But, 24 usually, if you don't have some markings
1 or something, they are going to come 2 by -- 3 MR. KACHMAN: We have the 4 regular curb and we have two catch basins 5 in the back of the parking lot tied into 6 the new catch basin that's in the -- 7 MS. BUTTON: In the front. 8 MR. KACHMAN: To the south. It 9 will all be properly drained. 10 MS. BUTTON: Okay, no problem. 11 Like I said, I don't have an issue with 12 what you are trying to do. 13 MR. KACHMAN: Sure. It can 14 only help everybody. 15 MS. BUTTON: Yeah. 16 MEMBER SKELCY: I would be in 17 favor of the variances being requested 18 based on the fact that there is going to 19 be adequate drainage. I think it's going 20 to greatly improve the appearance of the 21 strip mall area. So, that's all I have. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 23 Thank you. 24 Member Cassis.
1 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. I guess 2 everything that Ms. Button, who used to 3 serve on these boards before, long time 4 ago, have been addressed. Is that true, 5 Ms. Button? 6 MS. BUTTON: I don't know. I 7 only learned about the whole idea about 8 two weeks ago. Maybe not even two weeks 9 ago. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: I'm sure -- 11 MS. BUTTON: When I got the 12 public notice. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, 14 thank you for acknowledging me. 15 You know, I have seen this area 16 developed from way back 1975, '76, ever 17 since I have been here. And those 18 buildings have been brought up to date 19 continuously, and the area has been much 20 improved. And with the erection of that 21 party store that is put up there, and the 22 people are using it, and it is quite 23 attractive. It has passed all of our 24 ordinances at that time.
1 And I can see where these 2 people have spent so much money putting 3 into this project. I mean, I can imagine 4 all the expenses that have been put into 5 this project. Would you say that there 6 was a lot? 7 MR. KACHMAN: Yeah. I have 8 been working on the project with the 9 family since they had the party store up 10 at the front corner over there. And we 11 were before the planning commission, the 12 Town Center board, and they are the ones 13 that suggested that we move the building 14 right up next to the other three, so it 15 looks like it's part of a center. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: That's right. 17 MR. KACHMAN: That's how we 18 started the development of it. And then 19 we tried to share a driveway with the 20 people next door, and that didn't work. 21 And then finally we just ended up with 22 what you see. 23 And by us putting this parking 24 lot in the front and tying it all the way
1 through, it utilized the parking all the 2 way to the front of the party store. 3 Because the consignment people that have 4 their shop have a problem with parking, 5 so that's the biggest thing. And we 6 would like to keep all the tenants in 7 that building by having additional 8 parking; that would keep them in there. 9 And they can come in through the back way 10 to get in those shops, also, by parking 11 behind it, too. 12 And it keeps -- right now, you 13 just see a dumpster sitting out there and 14 a fence. They come in off of her 15 property to get into it; that's the only 16 way they can get into it. This will 17 clear all that up, clean it all up, give 18 her all access behind her building, and I 19 think it's good for everybody. 20 MEMBER CASSIS: How about that 21 situation, in the back of Mrs. Button's 22 talking about? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Drainage. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: Not the
1 drainage. 2 MR. KACHMAN: The drainage 3 issue, well, that is taken care of within 4 our own site. We have a curb along that 5 whole property line, so no water will go 6 her way at all, and he have to detain 7 water behind ours. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: She was talking 9 about something in the back. 10 MR. KACHMAN: There is a 11 utility easement that runs along the 12 whole property line all the way across 13 there. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: How is that 15 going to be handled? 16 MR. KACHMAN: That would go -- 17 that will still be on her property. We 18 have a utility easement on ours; we are 19 landscaping ours. What there is right 20 now, I believe is the only way to get 21 into behind the site, they drive down the 22 utility easement to service the dumpster. 23 Once that's taken care of, there won't be 24 any of that anymore. Then that will --
1 MEMBER CASSIS: So everybody 2 will be on their own? 3 MR. KACHMAN: Right, everybody 4 will be on their own property. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. 6 MR. KACHMAN: That's the other 7 reason we are doing that, also, to help 8 alleviate this problem. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Spencer, is 10 that the case? 11 MR. SPENCER: That is the case. 12 And just to throw in on a side note. If 13 Mrs. Button wants to improve her 14 property, we would be glad to review with 15 her requirements of the site plan, or if 16 one is needed to make those improvements. 17 But he's correct, by placing 18 that curb there, the food store people 19 will not be crossing that property line 20 through that existing easement. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Good thing. 22 Mr. Chairman, this has been such a 23 difficult site to put together these 24 three or four different buildings. And
1 engineered it in such a way as to bring 2 it up to date. I mean, as it is now, 3 cars coming off Grand River will just go 4 in there without notice of where the road 5 is or where the access is or whatever, 6 and splash the water all over the place. 7 Drainage was not good, and it's not 8 worked. 9 This has got to be quite an 10 improvement in that site. And with the 11 approval of our people here, the staff, 12 and the way that traffic is going to flow 13 with that, also pedestrian accesses, I 14 can't see any better way to engineer this 15 thing. Although, I'm not an engineer, 16 but looks like quite a bit of effort was 17 put into this by this gentleman here, 18 this architect. 19 So, as far as I'm concerned, 20 this is an improvement on what is 21 existing, and I will go along with it. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 23 Member Cassis. Anybody else? 24 Member Sanghvi.
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 2 sir. Well, I think it's very hard for 3 people who come to Novi recently, they 4 cannot visualize what it was like even 5 before the Town Center was conceived. 6 And all these rows of building were 7 there, and you don't even know what Sixth 8 Gate was all about; it's history now. 9 So, the fact still remains, 10 this is a little eyesore in that corner. 11 And with this improvement, it's a win-win 12 situation for everybody who is concerning 13 this property. So I have no hesitation 14 in supporting this really quite a change 15 in the circumstance there. Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 17 Member Sanghvi. Anybody else? 18 Seeing no one else, I will add a couple 19 comments. 20 I, too, will support this. I 21 appreciate the investment you are making 22 in this city to improve this property, 23 and it will only help beautify the area 24 and make it a lot more easy to drive
1 through. 2 That being said, I will 3 entertain a motion in this matter. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Best motion 5 maker. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 7 Skelcy. 8 MEMBER SKELCY: In the case of 9 09-042, the address of 43025-43043 Grand 10 River Avenue, I make a motion to grant 11 the setback variances to permit 12 construction of the parking lot 13 improvements and expansion of the parking 14 lot, located in the front of the four 15 existing retail buildings. 16 This is based on the fact that 17 the frontage, setback, density 18 requirements unreasonably prevent the use 19 of the property for permitted purpose, 20 that the variance will provide 21 substantial justice to the petitioners 22 and surrounding property owners in the 23 zoning district. 24 There are unique circumstances
1 to the property, the problem is not 2 self-created, adequate light and air 3 provided to adjacent properties, there is 4 no increase in fire or public safety 5 danger. Property values will not be 6 diminished in the surrounding area, and 7 it is within the spirit of the zoning 8 law -- zoning ordinance. 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: I second. 10 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 11 motion by Member Skelcy, second by 12 Member Ghannam. Is there any further 13 discussion with the board? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: No. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Seeing 16 none, please take the roll. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 21 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 24 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
1 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 6 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Motion 8 passes, seven to zero. 9 Next on the agenda is Case No. 10 ZBA10-010, 21650 Novi Road, Estate 11 Storage. 12 The petitioner is requesting 13 variances from Article 24 and Section 14 2505 Section 2 of the zoning ordinance, 15 and 28-10, Items B, 11, A, 3 and 4 of the 16 sign ordinance, to allow pick-up and 17 drop-off parking of rental vehicles in 18 the front yard of an existing storage 19 facility. 20 The property is zoned I-1 and 21 is south of Nine Mile Road and east of 22 Novi Road. 23 Please state your name and 24 address.
1 MR. LAPHAM: Chuck Lapham, 2 18412 Blue Heron Drive, Northville. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: And if you 4 are not an attorney, please raise your 5 hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 6 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 7 10-010, 21650 Novi Road, Estate Storage, 8 do you swear or affirm to tell the truth 9 in this case? 10 MR. LAPHAM: Yes. 11 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Please 13 proceed, sir. 14 MR. LAPHAM: We were cited for 15 parking or storing a truck out in front 16 of our gate, and it included a sign on 17 the truck. This is the first time in our 18 rental history that we have run into this 19 situation. And we've had three months to 20 consider how we can get involved in due 21 diligence to try to adhere to the 22 ordinance. 23 Now, I can only hope that you 24 will see and give us indulgence in the
1 fact that the truck has somebody's name 2 on it; this seems to be an infraction. 3 And the truck -- and we have had the 4 courtesy of in-house counsel, shall we 5 say, to eliminate the storage aspect and 6 go to parking. 7 Now, we have a high security 8 situation there. It's not that we want 9 to put those trucks out there if we don't 10 have to. But we can't tell when we are 11 going to get one dropped off, because the 12 company has that right to designate the 13 drop-off. We have to be 14 Johnny-on-the-spot then, we find, to get 15 it checked in, because they are not 16 allowed to drive through our security 17 gate unless they have a code. And, 18 obviously, customers renting a truck do 19 not have a code. 20 We would like to have time to 21 get the truck in or out. We don't let 22 the customer pick up the truck inside. 23 We think -- damage history, they allow 24 these people who come in and rent a truck
1 who have never been in one before, let 2 alone back up a trailer, if they have 3 one. So, we do the paperwork, and we set 4 the truck out. 5 Now, that particular picture, 6 if it's heading out, that means that they 7 are going to pick it up within an hour or 8 so. Now, we might have left it out there 9 for three or four hours, not knowing that 10 an ordinance said we couldn't. Maybe 11 that's where they came up with the idea 12 of we are storing our equipment out 13 there. 14 But it's temporarily parked, 15 and we were given, thankfully, some 16 information as to if we could get -- 17 realistically ask for your indulgence 18 here. And I don't know if you have page 19 31 and 32 of what was passed out to the 20 applicants, but it does give us rebuttal 21 presumption, which I'm thankful that they 22 had; it helps me a little bit. 23 And on page 32 of it, 24 apparently, if we can convince everybody
1 that that vehicle is temporarily there, 2 not stored there or parked as you think 3 parked; it's there for a short period of 4 time. 5 But, I guess they were trying 6 to give us a lesson. I got a call Monday 7 night, Saturday night, that there was a 8 26-footer that somebody had dropped off 9 there; we didn't know it was coming in. 10 And it was -- the back bumper was 11 somewhat over the sidewalk. And he said 12 the customer left the keys in it. We 13 never had that happen in all these years. 14 I thought, tomorrow, I have to 15 appear, and I wanted to do it in the best 16 form. So, we didn't know what to do with 17 it, and we couldn't get any help from the 18 company. So, unfortunately, the police 19 came over and did a perfect B & E job, 20 got us the keys, and we were able then to 21 put it back in a secured area. 22 Once in a while, one might be 23 out there a little longer than -- there 24 is no time limit on this, I know, but we
1 are going to do the best we can if this 2 is a concern to the folks. It must be, 3 or we wouldn't have an ordinance. And we 4 would like to be able to deliver the 5 truck outside of the gate, if it's not 6 there for more than an hour or so, facing 7 out. If you see it facing in, we haven't 8 had time to check it in. 9 So, we are asking that you can 10 help us to adhere to our security for our 11 customers, because we have three gates 12 there, and we have cameras. And we don't 13 even have padlocks; we have shunt locks. 14 We are trying to do the best we can to 15 secure the property of our customers. 16 So, we hope that with your 17 indulgence, maybe we can continue leasing 18 a truck. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 20 Thank you, sir. 21 Is there anyone in the audience 22 who wishes to address the board regarding 23 this issue? Seeing none, will the 24 secretary please read any correspondence
1 into the record. 2 MEMBER IBE: Zero responses, 3 two mail returned. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 5 MEMBER IBE: You're welcome, 6 sir. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Does the 8 building department or city attorney wish 9 to make any comments? 10 MS. KUDLA: We have nothing. 11 MR. BOULARD: Just a couple 12 comments, if I could. This business has 13 an office building and a wrought iron 14 fence, which are right up against the -- 15 basically against the front setback. The 16 gentleman rents U-Haul trucks, and there 17 is two spaces that are behind the 18 setback, technically, but they are real 19 tight there, just south of the office 20 there. 21 The issue for us is that A, we 22 had trucks that were parked out there in 23 the front setback for a time. And in 24 some cases where, in most cases, where
1 the trucks are fairly large, they need to 2 be out, you know. They are out in what's 3 essentially the driveway. And they are 4 in the front setback and, hence, the 5 ordinance violation. 6 The other thing is, that if you 7 have the sign ordinance specifically 8 addresses vehicles that are painted up 9 with signs, and these trucks are, they 10 are advertising on most of the panels. 11 So, in order to accommodate all the parts 12 of the request, we asked the gentleman to 13 come forward with a request to park for 14 certain amounts of time in the front 15 setback. And, as I understand, it would 16 be after vehicles are dropped off or 17 before they are picked up. They might 18 occasionally be over night if they come 19 late at night, but that's it. As soon as 20 the business is open, they would be 21 moved. 22 And then by including the 23 section about the sign, we would also 24 deal with the fact the trucks are painted
1 as they are, and kill two birds with one 2 stone, so to speak. 3 So, that's the request. I 4 would be happy to answer any questions. 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 6 At this time I will refer this matter to 7 the board for discussion. Who would like 8 to begin? 9 Ms. Skelcy. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: Mr. Lapham, I 11 was wondering why you can't wait to pull 12 the trucks out until the customer 13 actually arrives on the property? Why do 14 you have to park it out in front before 15 they arrive? 16 MR. LAPHAM: We have learned 17 our lesson. They cannot go behind the 18 gates and take possession of the truck 19 and try and navigate it out of there. 20 MEMBER SKELCY: That's not -- 21 my question is, why can't you wait until 22 they arrive and then have one of your 23 staff pull it out at that time, instead 24 of doing it ahead of time?
1 MR. LAPHAM: Okay. Good 2 question. For the convenience of the 3 customer, we like to look our best, if we 4 can. And we might only have one manager 5 there at the time. We have already got 6 the paperwork done, keys are in the cab, 7 and the manager might be out showing 8 somebody some property, or a unit, or 9 tied up inside the office and can't get 10 out there. 11 And, besides, we don't want 12 that person taking possession behind our 13 gates. We've got the damage to prove it. 14 We had to rebuild a golf cart that seems 15 to be in the way; it was sitting. 16 MEMBER SKELCY: That doesn't 17 really answer the question. If you have 18 a management staff person who is helping 19 another customer, then they can't take 20 care of the person who wants the truck 21 anyway. So the person who wants the 22 truck has to wait no matter what. 23 MR. LAPHAM: Oh, you mean why 24 don't we go and get the truck and print
1 it out at the time? 2 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 3 MR. LAPHAM: We can, probably, 4 most of the time. I don't want to get an 5 infraction because this person wants to 6 pick it up say at 5:30; we are gone. And 7 we would still like to rent it, and we 8 set it out there, and they come by, and 9 it's worked that way for years. 10 MEMBER SKELCY: How do they get 11 the keys if there is nobody there? 12 MR. LAPHAM: It's all 13 programmed inside the car. We've got the 14 paperwork done, the person knows where 15 the keys are, and they just pick it up. 16 They do the same way when they drop it 17 off; we don't have to be there. And a 18 lot of times we don't even know what's 19 coming in.. 20 So, I would say you might see 21 more trucks facing in than you will out. 22 We have a little less control when they 23 tell somebody to drop a truck off at our 24 place, like in the evening, it might be a
1 Sunday. But we do the best we can to get 2 them behind the gate. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: You know, I 4 drove by your place today, and it's very 5 well landscaped, and it's kind of a shame 6 you have trucks out in front, because it 7 really hides how nice your property 8 looks. 9 MR. LAPHAM: Well, I take pride 10 in my property. In fact, we got a 11 beautification award for it, because this 12 is the first storage facility that got a 13 beautification award from any 14 municipality that we could find. And we 15 are trying to look like an estate in an 16 industrial district with a railroad track 17 behind us. I think we have done quite 18 well. I should pat myself on the back, I 19 guess. 20 MEMBER SKELCY: I have no other 21 questions. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 23 24 Member Ghannam.
1 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a 2 question. You mentioned something about 3 a rebuttable presumption that he's 4 entitled to under some ordinance section 5 that we don't have. What is that all 6 about? 7 MR. BOULARD: I believe the 8 reference is to there is some tips that 9 are listed in the packet that goes out 10 with the ZBA request, and it has some 11 tips for being prepared to respond to 12 questions and so forth. Nothing beyond 13 that in the ordinance. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I gotcha. One 15 other question for the city. If a 16 variance is granted, legitimately, they 17 can park vehicles out there without any 18 limitations, I presume, trucks with 19 signage, without any time limitations, 20 wouldn't it? 21 MS. KUDLA: You could put a 22 limitation on the time, if you want. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: In terms of 24 hours or something?
1 MS. KUDLA: Yeah. 2 MEMBER GNANNAM: That's kind of 3 hard to do, like micromanaging, you know, 4 when they can do it and so forth. I 5 guess that's the difficulty I got. I 6 understand the need and the request and 7 so forth, and I appreciate the question 8 about why can't you do it when the 9 customer arrives, you know, pull out 10 their vehicles. I understand you don't 11 want the customers pulling them out. 12 But, I presume, as part of your 13 business, people can drop off vehicles at 14 any time? 15 MR. LAPHAM: That's true. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: That's true, 17 okay. 18 MR. LAPHAM: We have had three 19 months to kind of reorganize ourselves, 20 because we weren't aware of this. And I 21 think we made some progress. We probably 22 left it out there sometimes longer than 23 they should. But now that -- we've paid 24 more attention to it. I don't know if
1 your ordinance lady has witnessed that, 2 because she hasn't given us a citation 3 since she knew that we were coming before 4 you. 5 She might -- I don't know if 6 she's given anybody any notice or not, 7 but we had shortened the time that those 8 trucks do sit out there. 9 MEMBER GHANNAM: In your 10 opinion, how many vehicles do you think 11 you can park in the front yard setback 12 area? 13 MR. LAPHAM: We found out the 14 other day. Three. They all came in on a 15 Sunday. And, let me show you. Can 16 you -- 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Put it on 18 the overhead. 19 MR. LAPHAM: Well, that's not 20 giving you any information, at least that 21 I can see. 22 What this is showing is that we 23 had two -- shall I -- that happened just 24 the other day. And, apparently, two
1 trucks came in when we weren't there. 2 They were able to park in our regular two 3 parking spaces. Now, when you see 4 that -- that must have been a customer 5 who came in, and the two parking spaces 6 were already full, and they parked out 7 there where we have parked for some time, 8 if we are just going to come in. And I 9 was taught years ago in retailing, that 10 you don't take the customer's parking 11 space. So where that little white car is 12 parked is where I normally come in, if 13 I'm just going in the office and coming 14 out. 15 Now, I would prefer not to be 16 compelled to mark that as a parking 17 space. I don't want people to think it's 18 a parking space, but, if it has to be, as 19 you saw in that particular picture, they 20 found accommodations. We served 21 everybody, and everybody was taken care 22 of. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: If that white 24 vehicle didn't park in the space that you
1 have on that photograph, realistically, 2 you have two parking spaces, right? 3 MR. LAPHAM: Normally they 4 don't pull the truck in there. I was 5 surprised, because they were smaller 6 trucks, so got them in our parking spaces 7 inside the first gate. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: I'm talking 9 about before you get inside your 10 property, on the outside, in the front 11 yard. You can only park two if that 12 white vehicle didn't park in the drive 13 area, or no? 14 MR. LAPHAM: We don't park 15 outside our gates. That car, let's say, 16 is in an illegal parking space. I hate 17 to use that word, but it has accommodated 18 our needs, and I prefer not to mark it as 19 a parking space. 20 See, our setbacks are generous. 21 I think we are 95 feet back from the edge 22 of the road, 92. 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Would you have 24 a problem with a limitation of number of
1 vehicles as well as time limitations on 2 how long these vehicles can be parked 3 there? 4 MR. LAPHAM: I wouldn't, if I 5 can control it. 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: If you 7 couldn't control it, what would you 8 recommend? 9 MR. LAPHAM: Oh, we have 10 already tried. We check them in as 11 quickly as we can. 12 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand. 13 I'm saying, if we wanted to put a time 14 limitation and a number of vehicle 15 limitation on you, if that's an 16 alternative for the board to consider, 17 what would you recommend? 18 MR. LAPHAM: If we were open, 19 we should be able to do it, half an hour. 20 If we are not open, I can't put a time on 21 it. 22 MEMBER GHANNAM: That's part 23 of -- one of my issues. I know people 24 park in the evenings, and you can't get
1 it until the morning. 2 MR. LAPHAM: But they are not 3 interfering with commerce or visibility 4 because of our deep setback there. 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. I don't 6 have any other questions. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Mr. 8 Boulard, you want to add something? 9 MR. BOULARD: I just want to 10 mention, it's very important to consider 11 the driveway, depending on the distances, 12 between 35 and 30 feet wide. And I would 13 certainly be concerned if any more 14 than -- well, I would like to have the 15 whole driveway open, but I would 16 certainly be concerned if there was any 17 more than one vehicle parked in that 18 driveway in terms of limiting access. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 20 Mr. Cassis. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, 22 Mr. Chairman. 23 You know, it seems like we have 24 tried to micromanage this guy's business.
1 I think the issue before us is this truck 2 has a sign on it. We have had people 3 issued citations and take them to court 4 for doing something like this, parking 5 trucks with their insignia on it. And 6 you can go to the court and check out 7 hundreds of them where people have been 8 cited. This is the central issue here, 9 so we must treat it this way. 10 Now, if his business, if his 11 type of business cannot manage to keep 12 these trucks in the back, that's his 13 problem. That's your problem. If you 14 need to put more people there, that's 15 your problem. If you need to develop 16 some sort of relationship between 17 yourself and those renters that come in 18 and rent the truck, and give them some 19 sort of instruction. "Look, don't park 20 in front." Or do some signs, in your 21 property, to have them park in the back 22 instead of in the front. 23 I'm sure there are ways to 24 manage a business of instructing people
1 to do certain things in a business. Now, 2 I cannot tell you how to do it. But, 3 does he have enough property in the back 4 to take care of trucks, parking trucks 5 and so on? Mr. Boulard. 6 MR. BOULARD: I think the 7 challenge without -- I mean, certainly, 8 it's a fairly large parcel. I think the 9 challenge, if I may, you know, not to put 10 words in your mouth, so to speak. The 11 buildings and the existing structures are 12 fairly close -- they are fairly crowded 13 towards the front. There is not a lot of 14 room there, in terms of getting security 15 there. Certainly, there is enough room 16 on the site to park the trucks, but I 17 think the issue is really access. 18 MR. LAPHAM: If I understand 19 the gentleman's question properly, we 20 want to get them behind the gate as soon 21 as we can. But we can't tell people 22 where to park if there is only three 23 places to park before you go through the 24 gate. So, I always like to try the
1 impossible, but that's going to be real 2 difficult to tell. We don't know the 3 trucks are coming in. They can send us a 4 stray truck and tell them to drop it off 5 at Estate Storage. And we'll do the best 6 we can, I assure you, to get it behind 7 the gate, because we don't want it out 8 there anyway. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: Can I ask you, 10 how many trucks do you have at your 11 business? 12 MR. LAPHAM: You never know. 13 Sometimes we are out of inventory. Right 14 now, I would say ten percent of our 15 rentals are out of the state. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: No, how many 17 trucks do come in and go out in a day or 18 in a week? 19 MR. LAPHAM: You might not have 20 one -- one truck some days, some days -- 21 I think what you are trying to get at is 22 what is our inventory? 23 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 24 MR. LAPHAM: Okay. We never
1 know. They will send us trucks, or they 2 will call and take one of our trucks for 3 another dealer, and a dealer will pick it 4 up. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: We know that. 6 MR. LAPHAM: Our inventory -- 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Sir, what I'm 8 trying to get at is your property large 9 enough to handle it in a way that these 10 trucks -- you just told us there were 11 three trucks at one time. 12 MR. LAPHAM: That doesn't 13 happen that often. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: If your 15 property -- Mr. Chairman, if the property 16 is not adequate enough to handle all that 17 traffic and avoid the technicality of 18 what we are looking at here, that there 19 is a sign put on a truck and parked in 20 the front, which is not allowed under our 21 ordinance. Now, either he has to limit 22 the amount of trucks that come or tell 23 them how to -- instruct them to go to the 24 back and not park in the front.
1 And this is what I am trying to 2 say. I will not approve this. Thank 3 you. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 5 Member Cassis. 6 Member Krieger? 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: I understand 8 both the -- I think listening to 9 everybody, the petitioner and Member 10 Cassis, and I'm in agreement, it is the 11 business -- you want to be in the 12 business to have a U-Haul truck. And 13 putting all those trucks out in front 14 also creates a safety hazard, whether you 15 have a fire truck that needed to come in. 16 Having keys locked in a truck is a safety 17 hazard, I suppose. If somebody wanted to 18 steal a truck, that's a whole other 19 story. 20 But you have a sign on a truck, 21 U-Haul, it's advertising. And then 22 Estate Storage is your primary business. 23 So there's got to be some other way that 24 you do your business, as Member Cassis is
1 saying, that if the availability -- if 2 somebody were to take care of that truck 3 right off the bat. If it's on a weekend 4 and nobody can take care of it until you 5 are open, there's got to be some other 6 way you can take care of business your 7 way, to handle that. 8 But, I'm in agreement. I can't 9 support having trucks parked out front. 10 MR. LAPHAM: Is that a fact? 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 13 Member Sanghvi? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah, I think 15 we need to clarify one thing here. You 16 are only Estate Storage business; you are 17 not in truck rental business. 18 MR. LAPHAM: I accompany that. 19 That is part of the business; I am in the 20 storage business. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 22 MR. LAPHAM: And it says right 23 here in the rebuttal. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: I know you are
1 in storage business. You have been 2 around there since early nineties; there 3 has been storage there since early 4 nineties. And I used to have two small 5 (unintelligible) many years ago, so I 6 know what goes on there. 7 (Unintelligible) but that is temporary, 8 to get registration and talk to your 9 manager and go inside. It's not designed 10 for parking for any length of time, 11 especially if you have a truck there in 12 front of your office. 13 MR. LAPHAM: I have three 14 parking spaces. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, but 16 those parking spaces are not for leaving 17 vehicles and going away. It is there 18 waiting to go inside or coming out -- to 19 come out and talk with your manager or 20 whoever is in charge at the time. 21 Are you in the truck rental 22 business, also? 23 MR. LAPHAM: Oh, yes, I am. I 24 have been for some time.
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: You see, all 2 (unintelligible) your business is Estate 3 Storage. How long -- 4 MR. LAPHAM: It's commensurate 5 with ours, because we get customers that 6 come in, and they need trucking, or we 7 gain customers by being able to 8 accommodate the trucks that come in and 9 deposit their goods in our -- 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: I understand 11 that. The issue here is your what is 12 your business? What is it, the storage 13 business where people come and go and put 14 their stuff and go away, or other is 15 truck rental, which you park there for 16 people to use as they need it. Is that 17 what you are trying to say? 18 MR. LAPHAM: We store the 19 trucks back there for their convenience. 20 This is part of our business. If you are 21 in the storage business, you have to get 22 the equipment, their goods, in and out. 23 And it helps us tremendously in these 24 times right now. This helps us pay our
1 taxes. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: If you are in 3 truck rental business, you got to find 4 space to park your trucks. The front is 5 not the place for it. 6 MR. LAPHAM: We have plenty of 7 space once we can get them inside. But 8 cut us some slack, to get them inside. 9 We are going to try and do it as quickly 10 as we can. I don't think we should be 11 punished because the person has a sign on 12 the side of his truck, for one thing. 13 And give us -- we have room to 14 get that truck parked there. A fire 15 engine doesn't have any trouble getting 16 through that wide driveway, because cars 17 with that truck, it was parked there, two 18 cars can still pass. And we made this 19 wide enough, because we are one of the 20 few that can take moving vans and get 21 them right down the aisle and turn them 22 around. And, so, we have accommodated 23 for larger vehicles. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you.
1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 2 Member Sanghvi. Any other? 3 MEMBER GEDEON: Sure. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: 5 Member Gedeon. 6 MEMBER GEDEON: I know you made 7 a big deal about the fence and security 8 is very important to your business of 9 storage. But, I mean, I just can't help 10 but think the fence is, you know, might 11 provide some security for vehicles coming 12 in and out; it doesn't really provide any 13 true protection, because it seems to be 14 only a five-foot high fence or so. So 15 claiming that you can't let trucks go 16 behind the fence for security reasons, 17 doesn't seem all that legitimate, given 18 it's not a very protective fence in the 19 first place. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anyone 21 else? Okay. Seeing all the board 22 members have had the opportunity to 23 speak, I will entertain a motion. 24 Member Cassis.
1 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't know if 2 the board will go along with it, but I'm 3 going to make a motion to deny under case 4 No. 10-010, 21650 south of Nine Mile 5 Road, east of Novi Road, to deny this, 6 because it is against our ordinance. It 7 actually puts another sign or two signs 8 or three signs on those trucks, in 9 addition to existing sign, which is 10 against our ordinance. 11 And I think the standards set 12 in the ordinance have reason for it. 13 And, in fact, some of the problems that 14 are created with this kind of arrangement 15 where the trucks are being parked in the 16 front will cause certain problems with 17 fire trucks or safety and so on. 18 So, in the spirit of the zoning 19 ordinance, I think I would reject this 20 petition. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 23 second. We have a motion to deny by 24 Member Cassis and second by Member
1 Sanghvi. 2 MS. KUDLA: I just suggest an 3 amendment to add to that motion the need 4 for the variance is self-created because 5 petitioner could manage business to pull 6 trucks back right away or direct 7 customers how to. Can we add that to the 8 motion? 9 MEMBER CASSIS: My 10 appreciation, thank you. 11 MS. KUDLA: Okay. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have 13 the motion. Any other further 14 discussion? 15 Ms. Martin, please take the 16 roll. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 21 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 23 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 24 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
1 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 3 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 6 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 8 Motion fails, seven-zero. 9 MR. LAPHAM: Does this mean 10 you've denied me part of my business? I 11 can't have trucks there? I don't know 12 where to go from here, because I'm guilty 13 of a man putting a sign on his truck. 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: You would 15 have to talk to the building department. 16 Mr. Boulard will be able to guide you. 17 MR. LAPHAM: Can you take away 18 my business like that? I mean, how -- 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: You will 20 have to talk to Mr. Boulard; he will be 21 glad to explain it to you. No one is 22 denying you your business; you just can't 23 park the trucks there. 24 MR. LAPHAM: I may have a truck
1 come in tomorrow, am I going to have to 2 go to court again? 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Sir, make 4 contact with the city in regards to it. 5 Next on the agenda, Case No. 6 ZBA10-011. 27475 Huron Circle, 7 Waltonwood. G. Michael Kahm of Singh 8 Development, LLC, representing Waltonwood 9 at Twelve Oaks is requesting renewal of 10 variance to allow continued placement of 11 a 41-square foot temporary leasing sign, 12 11 feet in height, located at 27475 Huron 13 Circle, Waltonwood. 14 The property is zoned RM-1 and 15 is located south of Twelve Mile Road east 16 of Novi Road. 17 Please state your name and 18 address, and if you are not an attorney, 19 please be sworn in by the secretary. 20 MS. REAM: Jennifer Ream, 24415 21 Bashian Drive, Novi. 22 MEMBER IBE: Ma'am, in Case 23 10-011, 27475 Huron Circle, Waltonwood, 24 do you affirm to tell the truth in this
1 case? 2 MS. REAM: I do. 3 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: You may 5 proceed. 6 MS. REAM: Thank you. As you 7 can see, I'm not Mike Kahm, a little 8 shorter and female. But, Mike got called 9 away on business, and I think he was 10 afraid to come see you guys all again, to 11 be honest. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: But better 13 looking. 14 MS. REAM: Thank you. I will 15 let him know, trust me. 16 Yes, I'm here to ask for an 17 extension for another year for our 18 leasing sign that runs along the finger 19 road as the entrance into Twelve Oaks 20 Mall. It's the same song and dance, 21 economic times are not what they were, 22 and I need help. I need all the help I 23 can get. 24 I'm not going to beg and plead,
1 I will just let you guys ask me 2 questions. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 4 Is there anyone in the audience who 5 wishes to address the board regarding 6 this case? Seeing none, will the 7 secretary read any correspondence into 8 the record. 9 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, in this 10 particular case, 14 notices were mailed, 11 zero responses, zero mail returned. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 13 Does the building department or city 14 attorney wish to add anything at this 15 time? 16 MS. KUDLA: We do not. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Charles 18 isn't here. 19 MS. KUDLA: He temporarily 20 stepped out. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. At 22 this time, I will refer the matter to the 23 board for discussion. 24 Mr. Gedeon.
1 MEMBER GEDEON: All right. I'm 2 going to ask you the same question I 3 asked earlier, the leasing sign. And in 4 here, in this case, you have had quite a 5 few extensions in the past. I'm just 6 going to ask the obvious. Is it possible 7 the sign is just not effective and not 8 necessary? 9 MS. REAM: The sign is actually 10 very effective, because it is the only 11 way that you know what that building is. 12 As you come along that finger road, it 13 clearly defines what we are, what our 14 business is. If it was gone and you came 15 in through that entrance, all you would 16 see is this grand building and not know 17 what it is. It definitely defines us as 18 who we are, and shows what it is that we 19 have to offer. 20 MEMBER GEDEON: How good would 21 business have to be for you to take down 22 the sign? 23 MS. REAM: I'd like to be in 24 the 80 percent occupied, and we are just
1 not. 2 MEMBER GEDEON: Have you ever 3 been? 4 MS. REAM: Not in the years 5 that I have been with the company. And I 6 have been with the company for four 7 years, so my time, we have not. 8 MEMBER GEDEON: Thank you. 9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody 10 else? 11 Member Cassis. 12 MEMBER CASSIS: Is it song or 13 is it dance? 14 MS. REAM: You tell me. 15 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't think 16 I'm going to require you to dance too 17 much. 18 MS. REAM: You don't want to 19 hear me sing, either. 20 MEMBER CASSIS: Now, you know, 21 it's a necessary sign, I believe, 22 Mr. Chairman. Thank you for 23 acknowledging me. It's been there, I 24 know we have talked about this before,
1 that it's been there for a while. 2 But, economic times as it is, 3 and truly, this kind of sign identifies 4 really what this project is all about, 5 which is independent assisted living. 6 And to really identify that and put it to 7 the public that are driving by, is 8 necessary to try to get business in 9 there. 10 So, I really don't see any 11 other way for the petitioner here to do 12 it, for us to really deny them and have 13 them put different sign would be costly, 14 would really not serve the petitioner or 15 the city or anyone any good. Or even 16 those people that are seeking -- I'm 17 getting to that age. 18 MS. REAM: Come see me. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: So, 20 Mr. Chairman, I go along with this. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 23 Member Cassis. 24 Member Skelcy?
1 MEMBER SKELCY: At some point 2 do you plan on having just a plain old 3 monument sign that delineates your 4 facility, rather than the leasing signs? 5 MS. REAM: Yes. We have a 6 monument sign now, but it does not 7 clearly define what Waltonwood is. We 8 have submitted to the development board, 9 actually, Mike did, a plan to change that 10 sign out and go with a sign that clearly 11 defines what our building is. 12 MEMBER SKELCY: So it would be 13 like a McDonald's sign, for instance, 14 like, "Here's our business"? 15 MS. REAM: Yes. It would be 16 Waltonwood, and it would say what it is 17 that we do. And right now, that isn't 18 what the case is. Right now we are 19 relying on our leasing sign to say what 20 it is that we are. Our monument sign 21 just says what our name is. So, if you 22 don't know what a Waltonwood is, you just 23 think it's an apartment complex or 24 building of some sort; you have no
1 idea. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: What you are 3 saying is that you are looking to change 4 the signs? 5 MS. REAM: Yes. 6 MEMBER SKELCY: And then what 7 is your occupancy rate right now? 8 MS. REAM: In our independent 9 building, it's about 79, and in our 10 assisted building, it's about 77. 11 MEMBER SKELCY: So you are very 12 close to the 80 percent. 13 MS. REAM: Close, but -- and 14 it's senior living. So as close as you 15 think you might be, seniors seem to leave 16 us, they pass on, and here we are again 17 with trying to fill back up. 18 MEMBER SKELCY: What is typical 19 for this business, in general, like the 20 occupancy rates across the board? 21 MS. BUTTON: You know, 22 honestly, in economic times when things 23 are good and people have money and it's 24 not an issue, you don't have children who
1 have lost their jobs, now mom and dad 2 live with them because they can no longer 3 afford, because they don't have jobs. Or 4 mom and dad have lost their money, now 5 they are moving in with their children. 6 You know, our occupancies could 7 well be into the eighties and nineties, 8 but in these times and in the State of 9 Michigan, the harsh reality is, it's just 10 not there. Everyone hovers right into 11 the seventies, mid seventies. 12 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 14 Krieger. 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: How much time 16 do you anticipate to go from to get this 17 other ground sign? 18 MS. REAM: If we could get a 19 year extension on our leasing sign, I 20 would like to see our monument sign 21 changed out sometime this year, while the 22 weather is good and stuff before the 23 winter comes. 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: I would be --
1 I would go for the variance if it was 2 until the end of this year. If not, we 3 have granted so many variances, it's 4 become a second ground sign. Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 6 Member Ibe, go ahead. 7 MEMBER IBE: Ma'am, good 8 evening. 9 MS. REAM: Hi. 10 MEMBER IBE: You know, I'm not 11 so sure if it was last year that this 12 came before us. And, if I recall, I did 13 tell the gentleman who is here the last 14 time that I'm not very pleased with what 15 you have. I pretty much told him this is 16 a permanent sign. I mean, you can 17 masquerade it any how you like, package 18 it any how you like. I don't care what 19 you call it, it is a permanent sign. So, 20 let's take it for what it is. 21 I'm not going to be inclined to 22 go for one year. I will be inclined to 23 the end of this year. Because, you have 24 had 11 years to correct this problem.
1 And I told the gentleman, I mean, someone 2 who is in business, you should know your 3 business better than anyone else. You 4 never going to have a situation where you 5 have senior citizens who, obviously, are 6 moving in and out, due to some natural 7 events. 8 MS. REAM: Right. 9 MEMBER IBE: And expect to have 10 80 percent occupancy. I mean, come on, 11 who are you kidding? It's either you 12 don't know how to run this business, or 13 you just think the folks in the City of 14 Novi just don't know what you are doing. 15 This is a permanent sign. 16 I will not support one year; I 17 will support until December 31st, 2010. 18 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 20 Anyone else? I'd like to add a 21 couple comments. I, too, agree with 22 Member Ibe. Last year I told Mr. Kahm, I 23 suggested that he look at a permanent 24 sign, getting information on it. He's
1 had a year to do it. Obviously, the 2 wheels are moving very slowly. I know 3 the economic situation is bad. But given 4 the type of facility, this isn't a condo 5 facility, it's a rental facility, so you 6 are always going to be having vacancies. 7 A permanent sign is the answer. 8 I could go on 'till the end of year to 9 allow the sign to remain, but at that 10 time I think for me, that would be the 11 very end. You better have a permanent 12 sign in there. Because this is -- it's 13 almost a permanent sign now, as was 14 mentioned earlier. It's been going on 15 for so long. Some businesses move slow, 16 but 11 years, that's beyond slow; that's 17 beyond government slow. 18 Okay. That's all I have. 19 Anybody else wish to make a comment? 20 Okay, then I will entertain a motion. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Not a motion, 22 Mr. Chair. We are struggling with three 23 months here from December. What's that 24 song, from November to December?
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: May I suggest 2 a compromise? Or the permanent sign, 3 whichever is earlier. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, maybe 5 they do it before. One year or earlier. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: That would 7 be up to the motion-maker. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, you 9 are the chairman; I respect that. 10 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Whoever 11 makes the motion, we'll deal with it when 12 they make the motion. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Whoever makes 14 the motion, let's do it. I'm not going 15 to do the motion. You want to dance? 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 17 Ibe. 18 MEMBER IBE: Just real quickly, 19 ma'am. If we were to agree to what you 20 are asking for, on the condition that you 21 also agree not to come back here seeking 22 renewal of this sign; will that be 23 agreeable to you? 24 MS. REAM: Yes.
1 MEMBER IBE: If you are not 2 going to agree to it, remember that, do 3 not come back here next year and say, 4 "You know, I wasn't the person in charge; 5 somebody else was supposed to be here." 6 Because I have heard this song before. 7 MS. REAM: Okay. 8 MEMBER IBE: It's become 9 something that I just don't want to 10 listen to anymore. We want some 11 assurance from you that your organization 12 will not come back seeking an extension 13 of this sign. 14 MS. REAM: Okay. 15 MEMBER IBE: Is that agreeable 16 with you? 17 MS. REAM: That is fine. 18 MEMBER IBE: If that's the 19 case, Mr. Chair. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: City 21 attorney, can we make a stipulation? 22 MS. KUDLA: If you want to do 23 it by way of time limitation, you can do 24 it that way. Not that they can't come
1 back, they could always come back even 2 if -- 3 MEMBER CASSIS: But you can 4 reject. 5 MS. KUDLA: Right, exactly. 6 They can't -- if you denied it, and they 7 tried to come back next week for the same 8 request with no change of circumstances, 9 that's a different story. But, if you -- 10 they can come back for a different 11 reason, change of circumstances, they 12 always have the right to. So time 13 limitation, if you feel that you are 14 looking for it to be a permanent monument 15 sign for a reasonable amount of time for 16 them, just to get to that point would 17 probably be the best way in this case. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 19 Member Ibe. 20 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, in Case 21 10-011, 27475 Huron Circle, Waltonwood, I 22 move that we approve the request made by 23 the petitioner, for a one-year extension. 24 And in the course of one year, petitioner
1 will use good faith and best effort to 2 have a permanent monument sign that will 3 replace the existing temporary sign. 4 And the basis for the renewal, 5 of course, is based upon circumstances of 6 features that are exceptional and unique 7 to the property, and will also give it to 8 the petitioner that in light of the 9 economic situation, that they might need 10 additional time to get the occupancy that 11 is required. 12 And, also, the failure to grant 13 will prevent or limit the use of the 14 property and will result in substantially 15 more than mere inconvenience or inability 16 to attain a high economic or financial 17 return. And that the grant will not 18 result in a use of the structure that's 19 incompatible with or unreasonably 20 interferes with adjacent or surrounding 21 properties. And will result in 22 substantial justice being done to the 23 applicants as well as the surrounding 24 properties. And, also, this will be
1 consistent with the spirit of the 2 ordinances. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 4 MEMBER GEDEON: Before a second 5 on that, I just want one point of 6 clarification. By way of that motion, 7 are you intending to grant a variance for 8 a permanent sign, as well? 9 MEMBER IBE: No. 10 MEMBER GEDEON: Just wanted to 11 clarify that. 12 MEMBER IBE: It's simply -- 13 it's simply based on the fact that the 14 statements of this applicant, that they 15 intend to have a permanent sign, and that 16 will be accomplished within the time 17 frame that is afforded to them in the 18 extension. 19 Is that correct, ma'am? 20 MS. REAM: Correct. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question. You 23 said a year. Did you mean by -- until 24 the end of this year? And then I will
1 second the motion. 2 MEMBER IBE: I was simply 3 asking for 12 months, is that correct? 4 MS. REAM: Correct. 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. Second. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 7 motion made by Member Ibe, and a second 8 by Member Krieger. Any other further 9 discussion? 10 Ms. Martin, please call the 11 roll. 12 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 15 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 19 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 23 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
1 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 3 Motion passes, seven-zero. 4 MS. REAM: Thanks. I hope I 5 don't see you guys out on the street. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The fifth 7 item on the agenda, ZBA10-012 for 22960 8 Venture Drive. SunGlo Services is 9 requesting a variance to locate an 10 accessory structure in the interior side 11 yard of the property located at 22960 12 Venture Drive. 13 The property is zoned I-1 and 14 located north of Nine Mile Road between 15 Novi and Meadowbrook Roads. 16 Please state your name and 17 address for the record. And if you are 18 not an attorney, please be sworn in by 19 the secretary. 20 MR. SPIRE: My name is Rob 21 Spire. I live at 43590 Nine Mile in 22 Novi, Michigan. 23 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in Case No. 24 10-012, 22960 Venture Drive, SunGlo
1 Services, sir, do you swear or affirm to 2 tell the truth? 3 MR. SPIRE: I do. 4 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Proceed, 6 please. 7 MR. SPIRE: I'm asking for a 8 variance. SunGlo is a restoration 9 company, and what that means, if somebody 10 has a flood or fire, we take care of the 11 damage, and then we do the restoration 12 after that. So we are truly a 24/7 13 company. 14 And, as a result of that, on 15 Venture Drive we have a lot of problems 16 with power. The power goes out on a 17 pretty frequent basis, and we prosper 18 when others have catastrophes. So, it's 19 important for us to keep our phones going 20 and have our building -- have power at 21 our building all the time. So we decided 22 to have a full building generator put in. 23 We filed a permit with the 24 electrical service and found out after
1 the fact that we were supposed to have a 2 planning approval for that. 3 Where we located the generator 4 was next to our building on the south 5 side in proximity to a transformer that's 6 a DTE transformer and surrounded by 7 arborvitaes and some other plants. It's 8 in proximity to the electrical panel. 9 The back of the building where it's 10 supposed to be, we have a berm back 11 there, and we have air conditioners back 12 there. And running power through the 13 building didn't make sense, so we hid it 14 next to the transformer. It's shaded by 15 trees and bushes and that type of thing, 16 and I'm asking for a variance to allow us 17 to keep it there. And that's it, 18 basically. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, 20 thank you. Is there anyone in the 21 audience who wishes to address the board 22 regarding this case? Seeing none, will 23 the secretary read any correspondence 24 regarding this case into the record.
1 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, there 2 were 29 notices mailed, zero responses 3 and three mail returns. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 5 Does the building department or city 6 attorney wish to make any comments at 7 this time? 8 MS. KUDLA: We do not. 9 MR. BOULARD: Couple comments. 10 In speaking with the folks from the 11 planning department, as was referenced in 12 the comments that they provided, they are 13 in favor of this as the -- as the 14 transformer, while not in the rear 15 setback, what would normally be required, 16 as far as possible from the neighboring 17 residential property. 18 The one suggestion was that any 19 variance be considered or contingent upon 20 the petitioner providing evidence that 21 the sound level of the generator at the 22 property line will not exceed the city 23 requirements. 24 So there are some requirements.
1 There was a question this afternoon. We 2 are looking over the information of how 3 loud that would be at the property line. 4 Looks like it should be fine. But, 5 obviously, we didn't have the information 6 to do the calculations for that. 7 That's the only comment. Thank 8 you. 9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 10 At this time, I will refer this matter to 11 the board for discussion. 12 Ms. Skelcy, thank you. 13 MEMBER SKELCY: I have a 14 question for the city. If we grant the 15 variance, I mean, is it guaranteed that 16 the noise thing can be managed 17 effectively, the noise requirements? 18 MR. BOULARD: I believe so. If 19 there is an issue, a lot of times there 20 is kits that can be fitted to the 21 equipment to make it quieter, or 22 certainly ways to buffer that noise. I'm 23 confident it can be dealt with. 24 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. Is
1 the generator already installed? 2 MR. SPIRE: Yes. 3 MEMBER SKELCY: Okay. Thank 4 you. 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: 6 Mr. Cassis. 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, 8 Mr. Chairman. 9 You know, it seems to me it's 10 really more practical and economical for 11 the petitioner, seems to me, to place 12 that generator in front, so that he 13 doesn't go through the expense of 14 bringing in power from -- I don't know 15 how far it would be, probably very far. 16 MR. SPIRE: Very far. The 17 electrical system is at the opposite end 18 of the building. 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Couple 20 questions to Mr. Boulard. Will there be 21 enough screening around that generator so 22 that it will not look, you know, bad, or 23 probably also diminish the noise that 24 will come from the generator?
1 MR. BOULARD: I'm not sure how 2 much vegetation that's been installed. 3 You have seen some of that in the 4 pictures that were provided. I'm not 5 sure how much that's going to eliminate 6 the noise. I think that the screening is 7 kept healthy, and that vegetation is 8 maintained, it will hide that generator 9 fairly quickly. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: You know, from 11 the kind of application that is here and 12 sketch that we were given, there isn't 13 really that much details about the 14 screening. I would want that there would 15 be some evergreen, arborvitaes, or 16 whatever. 17 MR. SPIRE: It's surrounded by 18 arborvitaes mostly. I have given some 19 pictures that show -- 20 MEMBER CASSIS: I don't know 21 why I didn't get pictures. Oh, that's my 22 set, my apology. Yes, it looks -- that's 23 all I wanted to ask Mr. Boulard for. 24 MR. SPIRE: Could I just add
1 one comment regarding to what you said. 2 The generator is muffled, and it's -- I 3 mean, it's my word here saying this. But 4 it's a very quiet generator. It's on an 5 exercise cycle once a week. And 6 sometimes we have trouble hearing it even 7 when we have the doors open. To find 8 out, I have to go out and make sure that 9 it's exercising on a regular basis, 10 because you want a generator for the 11 purposes we have to make sure it's 12 working all the time. So, it's a very 13 quiet generator. I'm not sure from the 14 property line that -- you could probably 15 know it's running, but it's not a loud 16 diesel generator that's making a great 17 deal of noise. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, 19 now that I've looked at the pictures, I 20 can see there are some nice green trees 21 around it, and it looks like it's been 22 screened, and I have no objections for 23 that application, so I would go along 24 with it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 2 Member Cassis. 3 Member Sanghvi. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: I have been to 5 your site. They have done a good job of 6 screening this, and I have no problem 7 with the variance. 8 MR. SPIRE: Thank you. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: You have done 10 a great job. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody 12 else? I will just make a couple 13 comments. I have no issues with this. 14 I'm familiar with the size of this 15 generator; noise is not a concern. You 16 have done a good job screening it, and I 17 will approve it. 18 MR. SPIRE: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: That being 20 said, we are looking for a motion. 21 Member Krieger. 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: In Case No. 23 10-012, 22960 Venture Drive, for SunGlo 24 Services, I move to approve their request
1 for the variance to locate an accessory 2 structure in the interior side yard of 3 the property located at said address. 4 And the property is zoned I-1. 5 The variance -- the practical 6 difficulty the petitioner has made, that 7 the setback, frontage, height, bulk and 8 density requirements unreasonably prevent 9 the use of his property for its permitted 10 use. 11 The variance will provide 12 substantial justice to the petitioner and 13 surrounding property owners in the 14 district. And the problem is not 15 self-created. Adequate light and air 16 will be provided as well as the trees 17 that the petitioner has shown us with his 18 pictures. And it will not diminish the 19 surrounding area, and is in the spirit of 20 the zoning ordinance. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 23 motion made by Member Krieger and a 24 second by Member Sanghvi. Is there any
1 further discussion on this matter? 2 Ms. Martin, please call the 3 roll. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 7 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 11 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 12 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 15 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 17 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 19 Motion passes, seven-zero. 20 MR. SPIRE: Thank you. Can I 21 just ask one last question? Am I 22 supposed to do something now with the 23 planning commission? Do I have to come 24 back and sign or do something, or am I
1 done? 2 MR. BOULARD: I guess I would 3 suggest contacting the planner tomorrow 4 morning. 5 MR. SPIRE: Kristen? 6 MR. BOULARD: Yeah, Kristen, 7 and let her know what happened and follow 8 up from there. 9 MR. SPIRE: Thank you. Thank 10 you very much everyone. Appreciate it. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Next up is 12 Case No. ZBA10-013, 25928 Sierra Drive. 13 Petitioner is requesting a 14 variance to allow construction of a 15 single-story addition and deck to the 16 existing home located at 25928 Sierra 17 Drive. Property is zoned R-A, and is 18 located south of Eleven Mile Road and 19 east of Beck Road. 20 Please state your names and 21 addresses for the record. And if you are 22 not attorneys, please be sworn in by our 23 secretary. 24 MS. SPIRE: Dana
1 (unintelligible) Bates. 25928 Sierra 2 Drive; that's in Novi. 3 MR. SPIRE: Keith Bates, same 4 address, 25928 Sierra Drive. 5 MEMBER IBE: In Case 10-013, 6 25928 Sierra Drive, do you swear or 7 affirm to tell the truth? 8 MS. BATES: Yes. 9 MR. BATES: Yes. 10 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. You 11 may proceed. 12 MS. BATES: We would just like 13 to take this opportunity to provide a 14 brief overview of the variance we are 15 requesting and the reasons we felt it 16 should be approved. 17 We are requesting a rear yard 18 setback variance of 17 feet for a 19 single-story family room addition and 20 associated variance for a deck. 21 We are zoned residential 22 acreage, but we are in a subdivision, 23 with subdivision-sized lots. Our 24 property does not currently conform to
1 the residential acreage standards for lot 2 size square footage, lot width or some of 3 the setback requirements. This results 4 in our current house filling or exceeding 5 the area allowed by the setbacks defined 6 for this current zoning. 7 The 33-foot rear yard setback 8 that would result from the granted 9 variance would be more aligned with our 10 property dimensions and our setbacks. 11 The uniqueness of the zoning of the 12 property prevents any expansion of the 13 house that would help increase its 14 usability. 15 Granting of these variances 16 would allow us to update our home. With 17 this addition, we plan to open the family 18 room area into our current kitchen to 19 create a continuous and flowing space 20 that is similar to more modern homes. As 21 well as the modernization, the addition 22 also provides us with increased living 23 space that we feel would be a major 24 improvement to the home. These
1 modifications would better accommodate 2 our future needs while allowing us to 3 remain in the community which we enjoy. 4 The granting of the variances 5 for the additions to our home should have 6 minimal impact to our neighbors. The 7 addition will extend directly rearward 8 only and will maintain the same distances 9 to our neighbors on either side. 10 We do not have a residence 11 directly behind us that would be affected 12 by the change in the rear yard setback; 13 we back up to a wooded area. 14 On the single-story addition 15 that we are proposing do not impede the 16 adequate light or air to the adjacent 17 properties. We have also notified and 18 discussed the plans with our neighbors, 19 and they have not raised any concerns to 20 us. Our homeowners association has 21 reviewed and approved our plan. 22 Granting these variances will 23 not alter the essential character of the 24 area, as our modified home will be
1 comparable to others in our subdivision. 2 At least seven other dimensional or 3 property variances have been granted in 4 our subdivision in the last ten years. 5 We feel this addition would be 6 advantageous to the neighborhood and a 7 good investment in the Novi community. 8 We would like to thank the 9 board for your time regarding this 10 matter. We feel that granting this 11 variance would allow us to improve our 12 home and invest in our community with 13 minimal negative impacts. 14 We would be glad to answer any 15 other additional questions. 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 17 Is there anyone in the audience who 18 wishes to address the board regarding 19 this case? Seeing none, will the 20 secretary read any correspondence into 21 the record. 22 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, there 23 were 36 notices mailed, zero responses, 24 zero mail returns.
1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 2 Does the building department or city 3 attorney wish to make any comments at 4 this time? 5 MS. KUDLA: No. 6 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 8 That being so, at this time we'll refer 9 this matter to the board for discussion. 10 Member Sanghvi. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 12 What's immediately behind your back yard? 13 MR. BATES: We have about a 14 hundred feet of wooded area around the 15 edge of our subdivision. So there is 16 about a hundred feet of woods, a pond 17 back there before it goes into the next 18 sub down the street. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just wanted 20 to bring this out, because it's 21 important. You are not going to impact 22 anybody on the back side of your 23 property? 24 MR. BATES: Correct.
1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I 2 have no difficulty supporting their 3 variance. Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 5 Member Sanghvi. 6 MS. BATES: I was going to say, 7 in addition to that, we did review the 8 woodlands and wetlands map with the 9 building inspector, and we are not in 10 either of those. We back up to, but we 11 are not in either of those areas. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 13 Ghannam. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I, too, agree. 15 This does look like a nice job you have 16 done, very nice planning. I don't see 17 any problem granting this, also. Thank 18 you. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 20 Anyone else? I have no issue with this, 21 also. Then at this time, and I'm looking 22 for somebody to make a motion. 23 Member Ghannam. 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you,
1 Mr. Chair. In Case No. 10-013, 25928 2 Sierra Drive, I move that we approve both 3 variances as requested. I believe that 4 the setback frontage, height, bulk, 5 density requirements unreasonably prevent 6 the use of the property for a permitted 7 purpose. 8 The variance will provide 9 substantial justice to the petitioner and 10 surrounding property owners in the zoning 11 district. 12 There are unique circumstances 13 to the property; the problem is not 14 self-created. There is certainly 15 adequate light and air provided to the 16 adjacent properties, does not increase 17 fire danger or public safety. The 18 property values will not be diminished 19 within the surrounding area, and the 20 spirit of the zoning ordinance is 21 observed. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 24 motion made by Member Ghannam and second
1 by Member Sanghvi. Is there any further 2 discussion? 3 Ms. Martin, please call the 4 roll. 5 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 11 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 12 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 13 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 15 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 17 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 18 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 20 Motion passes, seven-zero. 21 MS. BATES: Thank you very 22 much. 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The next 24 case is ZBA10-014, 41370 Bridge Street.
1 Petitioner is requesting a 2 variance to install additional real 3 estate leasing sign of 24 square feet, 4 adjacent to I-96, for 41370 Bridge 5 Street. 6 Property is zoned I-1 and is 7 located east of Meadowbrook Road and 8 south of I-96. 9 Please state your name and 10 address for the record. And if you are 11 not an attorney, please be sworn in by 12 our secretary. 13 MR. HARRIGAN: My name is Jim 14 Harrigan, and I'm not an attorney. 15 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in 16 Case No. 10-014, 41370 Bridge Street, do 17 you swear or affirm to tell the truth? 18 MR. HARRIGAN: Yes. Thank you. 19 My name is Jim Harrigan. I'm with Lee & 20 Associates, a commercial real estate 21 broker handling the leasing and sale of 22 the subject building, and here requesting 23 a variance on the sign ordinance to allow 24 a larger sign.
1 Reason being is that it's on -- 2 where the sign will be located is on 3 I-96, where I-96 goes to 275. So cars 4 are going by there at 65, supposedly, but 5 more like 80 miles an hour. So I need a 6 larger sign to enhance the exposure of 7 the building and bring another solid 8 company to the City of Novi. 9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 10 Thank you. Is there anyone in the 11 audience who wishes to address the board 12 regarding this case? Seeing none, will 13 the secretary read any correspondence we 14 have regarding this case into the record. 15 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, in this 16 particular case, ten notices were mailed, 17 zero responses, zero mail returned. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 19 Does the building department or city 20 attorney wish to make any comments? 21 MS. KUDLA: No. 22 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add. 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 24 Thank you. Therefore, I will turn this
1 over for discussion to the board. 2 MEMBER CASSIS: The usual 3 suspect. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 5 Cassis. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, 7 Mr. Chairman. I know we have been hard 8 on other signs, but this looks like an 9 easy one. I think it's not really that 10 huge anyhow, 24 square feet. 11 MR. HARRIGAN: It's 12 single-sided, also, because we took into 13 account it's the traffic going that way 14 is one way, really. You are not going to 15 see it coming westbound on 696, so it's a 16 single-sided sign. It will be angled 17 towards oncoming traffic, but it's all 18 commercial industrial. It's all 19 industrial in that area. We are not 20 impeding on any residential. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: Jim, you don't 22 really have to persuade me. 23 MR. HARRIGAN: Okay. 24 MEMBER CASSIS: I will start to
1 support you. 2 MR. HARRIGAN: I'm in the sales 3 profession. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: Calvin 5 Coolidge, as my wife always tell me, I 6 was never hurt by anything I've said. 7 MR. HARRIGAN: Good point. 8 MEMBER CASSIS: Or I didn't 9 say. Anyhow, so let's -- really, 10 Mr. Chairman, I have no problem with 11 this. This looks like a sign that is 12 necessary. Besides, on a freeway, so 13 that people driving by can see it. And 14 it's not really an unusually big sign, so 15 I will go along with it. Thank you. 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 17 Member Cassis. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: I support 19 this. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anyone 21 else? Okay. Looking for a motion. 22 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, real 23 quickly. Before the motion is made, for 24 how long -- what duration are they
1 requesting this for? Is that something 2 we need to be able to resolve? 3 How long, sir, are you -- 4 MR. HARRIGAN: I mean, I would 5 hope that it would be a very short period 6 of time. But, realistically, with the 7 economy, we got a year's marketing 8 assignment with the owner, so I'm 9 requesting 12 months. 10 MEMBER IBE: Twelve months? 11 MS. REAM: Yeah. Obviously, 12 it's down sooner, if we put a new company 13 in, it will be down, but we are 14 requesting 12 months. 15 MEMBER IBE: What are the 16 prospect of having someone within 12 17 months, do you know? 18 MR. HARRIGAN: Yeah, you have 19 talked about the state of economy. There 20 is no state of economy hurt worse in the 21 City of Novi than the commercial, 22 industrial, high-tech market. We are 23 getting -- it is a good building, it's 24 got freeway exposure, it's got heavy
1 parking. So, as I tell the owner, I 2 anticipate something happening in the 3 next six months is what -- there has been 4 some activity. We are requesting 12 5 months. 6 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. In 7 Case No. 10-014, 41370 Bridge Street, I 8 move that we grant the request as made by 9 the applicant for a period of 12 months, 10 one year. 11 The request is based upon 12 circumstances of features that are 13 exceptional and unique to the property, 14 being that we are living in hard economic 15 times, and that the petitioner needs 16 extra help and, hopefully, this will do 17 the magic to have this property rented. 18 Also, the failure to grant 19 relief will not unreasonably prevent or 20 limit the use of the property and will 21 result in substantially more than mere 22 inconvenience or inability to attain a 23 higher economic or financial return. The 24 grant of relief will not result in a use
1 of structure that is incompatible with or 2 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 3 surrounding properties. And, also, this 4 is consistent with the spirit of the 5 ordinance. Thank you, 6 Mr. Chair. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. We 9 have a motion by Member Ibe and a second 10 by Member Sanghvi. 11 Any other further discussion? 12 Ms. Martin, please call the 13 roll. 14 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 17 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 3 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 5 Motion passes, seven-zero. 6 MR. HARRIGAN: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Which 8 brings us to the final case on the agenda 9 this evening. Case No. ZBA10-015, 43700 10 Expo Center Drive. 11 Petitioner is requesting a 12 variance to install an oversized and 13 over-height real estate leasing sign, 14 100 square feet and 13 feet in height for 15 43700 Expo Center Drive adjacent to the 16 I-96 Freeway. The property is zoned Expo 17 and located West of Novi Road and south 18 of I-96. 19 Please state your name and 20 address for the record. And if you are 21 not an attorney, please raise your right 22 hand and be sworn in by our secretary. 23 MR. MONTGOMERY: Jim Montgomery 24 with Signature Associates; I'm not an
1 attorney. 2 MEMBER IBE: Sir, in 3 Case No. 10-015, 43700 Expo Center Drive, 4 do you swear or affirm to tell the truth? 5 MR. MONTGOMERY: I do. 6 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Please 8 proceed. 9 MR. MONTGOMERY: We are here to 10 look for a variance to advertise the 11 property at Expo Drive. Given the nature 12 of the property and the redevelopment 13 possibilities and brutality of this 14 economy, we need to increase exposure in 15 this property in any way possible. 16 This property has been sitting 17 there for a number of years, unused; it 18 could continue. We need to do whatever 19 we can to press every envelope to get a 20 deal for this property. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 22 Thank you. Is there anyone in the 23 audience who wishes to address the board 24 regarding the case?
1 Seeing none, will the secretary 2 read any correspondence into the record. 3 MEMBER IBE: Twenty-four 4 notices were mailed. Zero responses, 5 five mail returned. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 7 Does the building department or city 8 attorney wish to make any comments? 9 MS. KUDLA: No. 10 MR. BOULARD: I just have one 11 question or clarification. The drawing 12 that's included as the conceptual site 13 plan, that is indeed a conceptual site 14 plan as opposed to the existing property, 15 correct? 16 MR. MONTGOMERY: I have not 17 seen the site plan; I assume that was 18 submitted. 19 MR. BOULARD: Okay. 20 MR. MONTGOMERY: Anything 21 that's in there is not cut and dry; it's 22 going to be dependent on who buys the 23 property and their interaction with 24 Novi.
1 MR. BOULARD: I just want to 2 point out that there is two drawings, and 3 they don't agree. The sign gives the 4 sign location. 5 MR. MONTGOMERY: Okay. 6 MR. BOULARD: Thank you. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. At 8 this time I will open this matter up to 9 the board for discussion. 10 Member Krieger. 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: Question to 12 Mr. Boulard. Is there a sign already on 13 the Expo that we have approved before? 14 MS. KUDLA: I think that there 15 has been a past request for a size -- 16 larger sign, and I think it was a few 17 years. And I don't think the Expo Center 18 has been rented out since then. I think 19 it's been vacant consistently since the 20 last approval. 21 MEMBER KRIEGER: This is a 22 separate sign? 23 MS. KUDLA: I believe it's -- 24 there is only going to be one leasing
1 sign, is that correct? 2 MR. MONTGOMERY: One leasing 3 sign, correct. 4 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. Thank 5 you. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: 7 Member Ghannam. 8 MEMBER GHANNAM: Isn't there a 9 sign already on the property, though? 10 MR. HARRIGAN: On the property, 11 but not on the freeway and certainly not 12 of this size. We need to increase 13 exposure as much as possible. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand 15 that. Your current sign, does it face 16 Novi Road? Because I remember seeing it 17 -- 18 MR. MONTGOMERY: Yes, it 19 does. 20 MEMBER GHANNAM: This one is 21 intended to face the freeway? 22 MR. MONTGOMERY: Freeway, 23 correct. 24 MEMBER GHANNAM: I understand
1 the need, obviously. I see this place 2 empty for years on a daily basis. I have 3 no problem with it. I understand the 4 freeway exposure is important, too, so I 5 don't have a problem with this. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 7 Member Gedeon. 8 MEMBER GEDEON: Just for the 9 sake of comparison in the immediately 10 prior case, which was also on the same 11 freeway, it was only 24 square feet. 12 This is obviously quite a bit larger. Do 13 you have any -- did you just pull a 14 number out of a hat? 15 MR. MONTGOMERY: No, this is -- 16 the magnitude of this project is roughly 17 ten-fold of the previous project. It 18 limits the number of people that are 19 available to this project. You are 20 talking about a finite community that 21 could be involved in this level of 22 investment. We need to grab anybody we 23 possibly can. This is not going to go 24 into your local neighborhood; this is a
1 national search here. Anybody that 2 drives by, we'll take a phone call. 3 MEMBER GEDEON: Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody 5 else? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just want to 7 state that this is a huge property lying 8 vacant, and they can do with any help 9 they can get to get this place going, and 10 I have no problem supporting even this 11 size, because you can't see anything 12 smaller retail when you are going on the 13 highway. You need a large sign, and I 14 have no problem with that request. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 16 Member Skelcy. 17 MEMBER SKELCY: How long did 18 you want this sign for? 19 MR. MONTGOMERY: As the last 20 gentleman, we want a year assignment, so 21 a request for a year. 22 MEMBER SKELCY: Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any 24 others? Seeing none, I'm looking for a
1 motion. 2 Member Ghannam. 3 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will move in 4 Case No. 10-015, 43700 Expo Drive, Expo 5 Center Drive, that we approve the 6 petition for variance as requested, for a 7 period of one year or until the property 8 is either leased or sold. And the basis 9 of the request is made upon circumstances 10 and features that are certainly 11 exceptional and unique to this property, 12 and do not result from conditions that 13 exist generally in the city or that are 14 self-created. 15 The failure to grant relief 16 will not unreasonably prevent or limit 17 the use of the property and will result 18 in substantially more than mere 19 inconvenience or inability to attain a 20 higher economic or financial return. 21 The grant of relief will not 22 result in a use of structure that is 23 incompatible with or unreasonably 24 interferes with the adjacent or
1 surrounding properties, and will result 2 in substantial justice being done to both 3 the applicant and the adjacent or 4 surrounding properties, and is not 5 inconsistent with the spirit of the 6 ordinance. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay, 9 second by Member Sanghvi. We have a 10 motion made by Member Ghannam, and second 11 by Member Sanghvi. 12 Are there any other further 13 discussions? 14 Ms. Martin, please call the 15 roll. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Sorry. I'm 21 getting tired. 22 Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe?
1 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 5 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 7 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 9 Motion passes, seven-zero. 10 MR. MONTGOMERY: Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: That 12 brings us to the other matter section of 13 the agenda. 14 Does the city staff or city 15 attorney have any other matters to 16 discuss? Mr. Boulard. 17 MR. BOULARD: At the risk of 18 prolonging the meeting, Member Krieger 19 had brought up at the last meeting about 20 the lighting at the Fountain Walk, and I 21 will be meeting with the gentleman from 22 the development company on Friday morning 23 to discuss the redevelopment of that 24 north area there. So noted, and wanted
1 to let you know that hadn't gotten 2 missed. 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Appreciate 4 that. 5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Do any 6 board members have any other matters to 7 discuss? 8 I have one question for Mr. 9 Boulard. We talked in regards to the 10 planning commission representative to the 11 ZBA. Do we care to clarify that, so we 12 are all on the same page? 13 MR. BOULARD: Sure. At one of 14 the last meetings, some of the members 15 had asked for clarification on the issue 16 of the planning commission representative 17 taking part in the discussion and so on. 18 And in addition to talking to Ms. Kudla, 19 and I talked to Tom Schultz, and he had 20 indicated that, yes, it's -- he 21 understands the question, that it makes 22 sense that the planning commissioner is 23 there and is to bring that information -- 24 bring information to this board about the
1 general feelings of the planning 2 commission and so on. But that it was 3 appropriate when there was discussion or 4 voting on something that had been before 5 the planning commission, that the 6 commissioner would be excused. Seeing 7 that discussion and whatnot would also be 8 a chance for that individual to make 9 their opinions and persuasions. 10 MS. KUDLA: From the other 11 case. 12 MR. BOULARD: Right. From 13 having heard it twice; two bites of the 14 apple. I'm not sure if I explained that 15 accurately. I would be happy to answer 16 any questions. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I guess the 18 main issue of having a member here from 19 planning commission is to enlighten the 20 board here about what went on in the 21 planning commission and what were the 22 general consensus. If they are not 23 allowed to be a part of thing, I don't 24 know why they are on the board in the
1 first place; it doesn't make any sense. 2 MR. BOULARD: And the response 3 was for everything except for the things 4 they already voted on, but I did carry 5 that question forward. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Not that I 7 covet to be, you know, voting or 8 anything; it doesn't matter to me. But 9 one is always wondering whether 10 research -- I presume our esteemed 11 attorney, Mr. Schultz, went into the 12 archives of the discussion in the 13 legislature and did find out what was 14 their intent? 15 MS. KUDLA: I don't know that 16 he went to the legislative history, but 17 I'm sure that he looked at the statute. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: I said esteemed 19 attorney. But, you know, at times when 20 we are trying to find out a gray area 21 like this, and we've got attorneys here. 22 Correct me if I'm out of step here, but 23 seems to me that we go into the intent, 24 and that spirit of what the -- after all,
1 this was enacted by the legislature. 2 MS. KUDLA: We would have no 3 problem doing that if -- 4 MEMBER CASSIS: They chose to 5 bring the person from the planning 6 commission to come in. Now, how can they 7 participate in discussion and yet not 8 take a vote? I mean, that's like an 9 oxymoron here. And not that I coveted 10 or -- 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: It doesn't 12 matter who the representative -- 13 MEMBER CASSIS: I think 14 Dr. Sanghvi was correct in raising that 15 issue. 16 MS. KUDLA: Why don't we -- if 17 that's what you would choose for us to 18 do, we can look at the language of the 19 statute. And if it's not a 20 black-and-white issue that says in the 21 statute that that member can't vote, then 22 we can go into the legislative history, 23 if that's what you would -- 24 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes, I would,
1 just to for clarification's sake. 2 MS. KUDLA: Okay. 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Also, we might 4 want to look at other municipalities, how 5 are they treating it? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: What are they 7 doing about it? 8 MS. KUDLA: That would be the 9 same thing, yeah. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Right. My 11 appreciation. Thank you. Thank you, 12 Mr. Chairman. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All right. 15 Is that something we should have on the 16 agenda for next month, or is that going 17 to take longer to investigate? 18 MS. KUDLA: I think it's 19 something that can be investigated 20 reasonably quickly, because it's -- most 21 of the legislative history is all 22 computerized on the State of Michigan 23 website now. If we find the statute 24 doesn't just state in black and white
1 that it's prohibited, then it's easy 2 enough to access. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Hopefully 4 next month we'll have some 5 clarification. 6 MS. KUDLA: Yeah. 7 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 8 Any other items? Okay. I'm 9 looking for a motion to adjourn. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: So move. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Second? 12 MEMBER SKELCY: Second. 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All in 14 favor? 15 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 16 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 17 The meeting is adjourned. 18 (Meeting was 19 adjourned at 9:00 20 p.m) 21 - - - 22 23 24
STATE OF MICHIGAN ) ) ss. COUNTY OF WAYNE ) I, Sherri L. Ruff, Notary Public within and for the County of Wayne, State of Michigan, do hereby certify that the Proceedings and Testimony was stenographically recorded and afterwards transcribed by computer under my personal supervision, and is a full, true and correct transcript of the Proceedings. IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at the City of Detroit, County of Wayne, State of Michigan. __________________ ___________________________ Date Sherri L. Ruff, CSR-3568 Wayne County, Michigan My Commission Expires: 9/25/15
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