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REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS CITY OF NOVI TUESDAY,
MARCH 16, 2010
Proceedings had and Testimony taken in the matters
of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road,
Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, March 16, 2010.
BOARD MEMBERS Wayne Wrobel, Chairperson Mav Sanghvi Victor
Cassis Linda Krieger David Ghannam Donna Skelcy Jeffrey Gedeon
ALSO PRESENT: Beth Kudla, City Attorney Charles Boulard, Building
Official Malinda Martin, Senior Customer Service Representative
REPORTED BY:
Sherri L. Ruff, Certified Shorthand Reporter
1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, March 16, 2010 3 7:03 p.m. 4 - - -
5 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: I would 6 like to call to order the March 16th
7 regular meeting of the City of Novi 8 Zoning Board of Appeals. 9
Would everybody please rise at 10 this time for the Pledge of
Allegiance. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge 12 allegiance to the flag of
the United 13 States of America, and to the republic 14 for which it
stands, one nation, under 15 God, indivisible, with liberty and 16
justice for all. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Ms. 18 Martin, would you
please call the roll. 19 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 20 MEMBER
SANGHVI: Here. 21 MS. MARTIN: Member Cassis? 22 MEMBER CASSIS: Here.
23 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 24 MEMBER KRIEGER: Present.
4
1 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 2 MEMBER IBE: Present.
3 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Present. 5
MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 6 MEMBER GHANNAM: Here. 7 MS. MARTIN:
Member Skelcy? 8 MEMBER SKELCY: Here. 9 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon?
10 MEMBER GEDEON: Here. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We do 12 have a
quorum, and the meeting is now in 13 session. 14 Before we begin, I
would like 15 to welcome our newest board member, Jeff 16 Gedeon,
who will also serve as the ZBA 17 alternate. I hope you will enjoy your
18 time. If there is anything we can do to 19 help you, let us know.
20 MEMBER GEDEON: Okay. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: A few 22
housekeeping items. As a reminder, 23 please turn off all cellphones and
pagers 24 and ringers at this time.
5
1
At this time I'd also like to 2 go over some of the meeting rules. A
3 copy of the entire public meeting rules 4 of conduct is available next
to the 5 chamber entrance door. 6 The Zoning Board of Appeals is
7 a hearing board empowered by the City of 8 Novi to hear appeals from
individuals 9 seeking variances from the existing Novi 10
ordinances. 11 It takes a vote of at least 12 four members to
approve a variance 13 request, and a majority of members 14 present
to deny a request. Tonight we 15 have a full board, so all decisions
will 16 be final. 17 Individual applicants may take 18 up to
five minutes, and groups may take 19 up to ten minutes to address the
board. 20 The next item is the approval 21 of the agenda. Are there
any additions, 22 deletions or changes to the proposed 23 agenda?
24 MS. MARTIN: The only addition
6
1 was
Member Gedeon to the list of 2 members. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay.
4 Seeing nothing else, I entertain a motion 5 to approve it. 6
MEMBER SANGHVI: So move. 7 MEMBER GHANNAM: I second. 8 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Moved and 9 seconded. All in favor, say aye. 10 BOARD
MEMBERS: Aye. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Opposed, 12 no. Agenda is
approved. 13 Next is the approval of the 14 meeting minutes from the
February 9, 2010 15 meeting. Are there any changes to the 16
minutes? 17 Okay. Seeing none, I will also 18 entertain a motion to
approve. 19 MEMBER GHANNAM: So move. 20 MEMBER IBE: Second. 21
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's been 22 moved and seconded. All in favor, say
23 aye. 24 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
7
1
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Opposed, 2 no. The meeting minutes have been 3
approved. 4 At this time we have a special 5 presentation for a
long-time colleague, 6 Jerry Bauer, who served the city 7 faithfully
for many years, and hopefully 8 will continue to do so. 9 Senator
Cassis, Mr. Bauer, the 10 stage is all yours. 11 MS. CASSIS: Thank
you. And 12 good evening, Chairperson Wrobel. Thank 13 you for
giving me this opportunity to 14 come before you. I have been before
15 numerous boards and city councils, and 16 not only Novi, because
that's where I 17 started, but throughout this wonderful 18 15th
district. And I want to say 19 something about the Zoning Board of
20 Appeals, which we honor Jerry Bauer 21 tonight for 33 years of
service. 22 Zoning Board of Appeals is, I 23 think, almost the most
critical board in 24 any community. You make some very tough
8
1 decisions. And as the chairman said, 2 after
the decision is made on a matter 3 before you, it's final, unless you
choose 4 to go through the judicial system. So, I 5 believe we have
the brightest and the 6 best on a board that is composed of 7
members of the Zoning Board of Appeals. 8 I respect your service and the
9 time you give, and the thoughtfulness, 10 the wisdom, you put into
your decisions. 11 Because just like those of us at the 12 state
level, some of those decisions are 13 always rather trying and rather
14 difficult. They take all our skills, all 15 our dedication.
16 Jerry Bauer and his wife, who 17 is with him tonight, Carol. Carol
18 Bauer -- excuse me, Carol Smith and Guy 19 Smith. All of these
three individuals 20 along with Jerry are individuals who 21 helped
establish the foundation of this 22 community. Lest we never forget our
23 history and the legacy of individuals who 24 really really
provided the bedrock of
9
1 what we enjoy
today. 2 I can't even imagine what Novi 3 looked like in 1974,
Jerry, when you 4 joined the ZBA. I did not arrive until 5 1980. And
then, of course, I married my 6 husband, who moved here, and he has been
7 a loyal servant, too, for his community. 8 I think of Novi then
and I look 9 at it today, and I also look ahead, 10 Jerry, to what
will be the legacy. And I 11 started to mention some of the fine 12
people who brought us to where we are 13 today. I'm not going to name
all of 14 them, but some of them I just have to 15 underscore these
individuals who did so 16 much and set the stage for all of us 17
today. 18 Mayor Romaine Roethel, Mayor 19 Robert Schmid, Joe Brett,
and his 20 colleague at the time, Joe Toll (ph), who 21 were so very
much involved in the storm 22 water drain program, and members of the
23 planning commission. These are some of 24 the people I remember
and cherish along
10
1 the years that we
traveled this journey 2 together. 3 This tribute is a state tribute
4 to honor the commitment, the dedication, 5 the enormous service
that Jerry has done 6 for not only Novi, but his impact on the 7
entire region and the state. You see, 8 Jerry just doesn't do one thing;
he does 9 many. 10 And I don't know if you are 11 aware, but he
has been instrumental, no 12 pun intended, with the Civil War Band
13 that is very famous in these parts and 14 travels all over; they are
unique. And 15 Jerry is part of that. 16 I want to read a little bit
of 17 this tribute, because a man is known and 18 a city is known,
not just because of the 19 accomplishments, the brick and mortar 20
that they were able to assemble and bring 21 about, but they really are
embedded and 22 in our minds and memories for the spirit 23 that
they exuded, that became and that is 24 Novi. So let me read something
about
11
1 this man, Jerry Bauer's legacy.
2 In addition to being on our 3 ZBA, he served as a member of the
Novi 4 CERT and Friends of the Novi Library 5 board of directors. At
a time in our 6 history in Novi -- and you got to 7 remember, this
is before Twelve Oaks. 8 Can you imagine that? Before West Oaks, 9
Town Center, before the Expo Center, 10 before Providence Hospital,
before this 11 building, before the police building. 12 Jerry was
here helping guide the decision 13 making. 14 So officials face many
15 challenges and changes, and Jerry is 16 respected with a
heartfelt concern for 17 the citizens, the businesses, and the 18
institutions of the City of Novi. Jerry 19 will take with him many many
memories of 20 the trials he faced and the valuable 21 insights into
the complexity of our 22 system of democracy. He has expended 23
energy and time working through 24 situations to develop positive
solutions
12
1 for those involved. 2
With all that you have given to 3 the people of the City of Novi, you
can 4 take a great deal of personal pride and 5 satisfaction in
knowing the long-lasting 6 good you have done for this city. In 7
fact, I don't know if it was Bob Schmid 8 or maybe Guy Smith who once
said to me 9 when I was still pretty green behind the 10 ears, "What
do you personally take from 11 all your service to our community?" And
12 he said, "I look around Novi as I drive 13 around, and I can see
different things 14 that I had input into. And that makes me 15
proud that I'm part of building a city." 16 And as Bob Schmid said, and
you, I'm 17 sure, always adhered to, "We are building 18 Novi as a
city to stand the test of 19 time." 20 You have -- your service is
21 invaluable, and on behalf of the State of 22 Michigan, Hugh
Crawford, who represented 23 myself, I want to thank you deeply for
24 everything you have done. God bless you.
13
1 MR. BAUER: This is a little 2 something, I will tell you. It's
3 something, state senator, representative 4 of the 38th District. And I
-- not to 5 sound funny, but I really haven't done 6 anything.
Really. We had a job to do, 7 and we did it. And one of these times I
8 might come back and watch these people, 9 keep them on their toes.
10 I thank the city, and I thank 11 the state. I'm not through yet.
I try 12 to make it very simple. I love the city. 13 And I think
everyone on the board does, 14 too. 15 That's all I got to say,
Nancy. 16 MS. CASSIS: Thank you so much. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank
18 you, Senator Cassis. And, once again, 19 Jerry, thank you for
everything you have 20 done with the city. We look forward to 21 you
still doing more, probably outlast 22 me. 23 MR. BAUER: Thank you.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Next on
14
1 the
agenda is the public remarks section 2 of the meeting. If there is
anyone in 3 the audience wishing to make any 4 comments, not
pertaining to any matter on 5 the agenda tonight, please come forward.
6 Seeing none, the public remarks 7 section of the meeting is
closed. 8 That brings us to the first 9 case of the agenda, which is
case number 10 ZBA10-003 for 1627 West Lake Drive, filed 11 by MJ
Whelan Construction. 12 Petitioner is requesting a 13 modification
of a previous variance to 14 allow demolition and reconstruction of a
15 new home on the existing footings at 1627 16 West Lake Drive.
17 The reconstruction requires a 18 modification of dimensional
variances 19 approved in previous variance ZBA09-051, 20 to allow
additions to an existing 21 residence on the site. Property is zoned
22 R-4 and is located south of Pontiac Trail 23 and east of West Park
Drive. 24 Is the petitioner here?
15
1
MR. WHELAN: Yes. 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Please 3 state your name and
address for the 4 record. And if you are not an attorney, 5 please
raise your right hand and be sworn 6 in by the secretary. 7 MEMBER
IBE: Please state your 8 full name. 9 MR. WHELAN: Yes, Matt Whelan,
10 620 North Main. 11 MEMBER IBE: Case No. 12 ZBA10-003. Do you
affirm -- I'm sorry, 13 raise your right hand. 14 Do you affirm to
tell the truth 15 in this case? 16 MR. WHELAN: Yes, I do. 17
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Proceed 18 with your presentation. 19 MR.
WHELAN: I appreciate the 20 opportunity to come before the chairman
21 and board. What you have before you, 22 actually, we came to you as
you stated, 23 60 days ago. And based on just further 24 looking
into this project, we just felt
16
1 that it
would be much better for the 2 homeowner to probably be a little bit
3 more aggressive in our demolition of the 4 existing structure than we
first 5 anticipated. 6 And then talking with the 7 building
department here, they felt that 8 it would be -- it would just be a good
9 idea to come before the board and 10 probably petition you to --
not to change 11 any of the variances that were already 12 approved
or do anything different, just 13 for what is approved, the method in
which 14 we move forward. To just exercise a 15 little better
building facility there. 16 So, that's really all we are 17 asking
the board to do is give us the 18 ability to freely take down what
should 19 be taken down, to put back up what we'd 20 like to. 21
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. You 22 are done then? 23 MR. WHELAN: Yes.
24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is there
17
1 anyone
in the audience wishing to address 2 the board regarding this case? 3
Seeing none, will the secretary 4 please read any correspondence
regarding 5 this case? 6 MEMBER IBE: There were 46 7 notices
mailed in this case. Zero 8 responses, four mail return. 9
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 10 MR. WHELAN: Chairman, we did, 11 for
some reason, receive at our office I 12 found out today a response from
just 13 another neighbor that maybe you guys 14 would want. For some
reason, it was 15 mailed to us. 16 MS. MARTIN: I'd like it for
17 the file, please. 18 MR. WHELAN: What's that? 19 MS. MARTIN: I
would like it 20 for the file, please. Is it an approval, 21 or is
it an objection? 22 MR. WHELAN: No, it's an 23 approval. 24 MEMBER
IBE: Well, this is from
18
1 Haitham Semma
of 1611 West Lake Drive, 2 dated 2/28/10. 3 It says, "I am Haitham
Semma, 4 owner of 1611 West Lake Drive. I give 5 the approval for
the application to allow 6 and demolition and reconstruction of a 7
new home on the existing footing at 1627 8 West Lake Drive." 9
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 10 All right. Does the building department
11 or city attorney wish to make any 12 comments at this time? 13
MS. KUDLA: No. 14 MR. BOULARD: I have not a 15 whole lot to add,
other than what the 16 petitioner has mentioned. 17 The one thing I
did look at 18 with regard to the previous minutes or 19 concerns
when the board heard this case, 20 was looking at if there is ways to
shift 21 the building on the site, based on 22 changes or
configuration, based on the 23 changes in construction, and the fact
24 that it's going down to foundation and
19
1 being rebuilt. There doesn't seem to be 2 a lot of opportunity for
that, and I 3 think the variances are pretty much the 4 same. So if
you have any unanswered 5 questions. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
7 Okay. At this time, I will refer this 8 matter to the board for
discussion. Who 9 wants to be first up? Mr. Ghannam. 10 MEMBER
GHANNAM: Thank you. I 11 just have one question for the city. 12
What were the differences in the 13 variances we granted last time?
14 MR. BOULARD: The only -- there 15 are -- there are no differences
from the 16 variances last time. The issue was that 17 the
representation at the time the last 18 variance was granted was that
these were 19 additions to an existing building. So 20 the existing
high existing walls and so 21 on were there. 22 Since that time, the
petitioner 23 has decided basically to demolish that 24 building in
its entirety, with the
20
1 exception of
foundations, which I 2 understand they found in good shape. And 3 so
it's really a change in the 4 (unintelligible) conditions. 5 MEMBER
GHANNAM: They are the 6 same variances, they are just building a 7
new structure? 8 MR. BOULARD: Yes, that's my 9 understanding. 10
MEMBER GHANNAM: Okay. I don't 11 have any problem with it, sir. 12
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anybody 13 else? Member Sanghvi. 14 MEMBER
SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 There is nothing substantial than has 16
already been approved before, and I don't 17 see any problem approving
this one. 18 Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 20 Cassis.
21 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, just 22 which -- what is that accessory building
23 that needs to be moved? 24 MR. BOULARD: I believe the
21
1 survey that was provided indicates that 2 there
is a shed along along the one side 3 of the building towards the front.
4 Essentially, a non-conforming accessory 5 building. And my
suggestion was -- I 6 believe it was part of the motion last 7 time
was that -- 8 MEMBER CASSIS: What was that 9 used for? I forgot.
10 MR. BOULARD: I believe it was 11 a storage shed. The petitioner can
12 explain. 13 MR. WHELAN: Yeah, it's just an 14 out -- just a
shed. And I think based on 15 the last meeting here that the homeowner
16 did -- I think they did agree to just 17 remove that during this
whole process. 18 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. 19 MR. WHELAN: It will not be
20 there anymore. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: So the new 22 construction
is going to be built on the 23 same foundation of that existing 24
structure?
22
1 MR. WHELAN: Yeah,
absolutely. 2 We intend on leaving all the foundations 3 that are
there, and then modifying 4 according to what was already approved.
5 MEMBER CASIS: All right. 6 That's all I have to say. 7 Thank you,
Mr. Chairman. 8 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 9 Anybody else? Okay.
I, myself, I have 10 no issue with this and would support it. 11 And
that being said, and all 12 the board members having had an 13
opportunity to speak, I will entertain a 14 motion. 15 Member
Ghannam. 16 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. In 17 Case No. 10-003, for
1627 West Lake 18 Drive, I move that we approve the 19 variances as
requested by the petitioner, 20 with the condition that the extra 21
structure, the shed, is going to be 22 removed for the -- on the basis
of the 23 setback, frontage, height, bulk and 24 density
requirements unreasonably prevent
23
1 the
use of the property for the permitted 2 purpose. 3 The variance will
provide 4 substantial justice to the petitioner and 5 surrounding
property owners of the zoning 6 district. There are unique circumstances
7 to the property as we have seen in these 8 lot lakes -- lake lots,
I should say. 9 The problem is not self-created. 10 Certainly there
is adequate light and 11 air. There is no increase of fire danger 12
or public safety. Property values will 13 not be diminished in the
surrounding 14 area, and the spirit of the zoning 15 ordinance will
be observed. 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have
a 18 motion by Ghannam, and second by Krieger. 19 Any other
comments? 20 Ms. Martin, please call the 21 roll. 22 MS. MARTIN:
Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member
Cassis?
24
1 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 2 MS.
MARTIN: Member Krieger? 3 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member
Ibe? 5 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 6 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 7
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 8 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 9 MEMBER
GHANNAM: Yes. 10 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 11 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
12 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes. 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 14
Motion passes. You are all set. 15 MR. WHELAN: Thank you. 16
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The next 17 case is case number ZBA10-004, 43800
18 Gen-Mar, CVS Pharmacy. Petitioner is 19 requesting variances to allow
location of 20 an accessory structure in the side 21 setback, and a
waiver of the rooftop 22 equipment screening request for piping. 23
Property is zoned I-1, and 24 located north of Ten Mile Road and west
25
1 of Novi Road. 2 Is the petitioner
here? 3 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman. 4 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes, 5
Mr. Cassis. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: As a member of 7 the planning
commission, I had the 8 opportunity to deliberate on this case. 9
And according to the rules, I must recuse 10 myself, so the board
wishes. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 12 Counsel, do you agree? 13
MS. KUDLA: Yes. 14 MEMBER GHANNAM: I will move to 15 recuse Member
Cassis. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Second. 17 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's been
18 moved and seconded. Voice vote on this? 19 MS. KUDLA: Voice vote
on 20 this. 21 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 22 Voice vote. All in
favor of letting 23 Mr. Cassis not take part in this 24 discussion,
please signify by saying aye.
26
1 BOARD
MEMBERS: Aye. 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: All 3 opposed? 4 For this
case then, Member 5 Gedeon will be voting. 6 The petitioner may come
down 7 now. State your name and address for the 8 record, and if you
are not an attorney, 9 please raise your right hand and be sworn 10
in. 11 MR. HAWKINSON: My name is 12 Jamie Hawkinson (ph) with CVS
Pharmacy, 13 located at 43800 Gen-Mar Drive. 14 MEMBER IBE: Case No.
15 ZBA10-004, do you swear or affirm to tell 16 the truth? 17
MR. HAWKINSON: I do. 18 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Please 20 proceed. 21 MR. HAWKINSON: Yes. What we 22 are
looking to do is request a variance 23 for one location of air rotation
system 24 to be located on the side of the yard
27
1 versus the rear. The reason for the 2 request is for the
unit to be placed 3 furthest from residential to impose any 4
possible problems. 5 And the choice of the location 6 was chosen
because of the efficiency with 7 three air rotation units being
installed 8 for peak performance. It would actually 9 be optimal to
have it in the center 10 versus the rear of the yard. 11 The second,
I believe all you 12 should have some updated photos, is the 13
request of some type of screening, not 14 too sure what we would be able
to do that 15 would create more of an obstruction, I 16 would call
it. If you can see towards 17 the -- photos towards the back, we 18
actually went today and made a few 19 modifications as far as, you know,
20 shading it the color black, if that would 21 (unintelligible.)
22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anything 23 else? 24 MR. HAWKINSON: I'm
not too
28
1 sure, the air rotation system,
just for 2 everyone's knowledge, during the hot 3 climate days would
be able to provide 4 comfort for our associates. Currently, 5 inside
the warehouse, any time you get 6 temperatures above 80 plus degrees, it
7 starts becoming what we consider 8 unbearable conditions for
associates to 9 work. So our choice as an owner is to be 10 able to
put in some type of cooling 11 system or comfort system to be able to,
12 you know, surpass those needs with the 13 current restrictions
that we have with 14 our back wall fans. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL:
Okay. 16 All right. Thank you. 17 MR. HAWKINSON: Thank you. 18
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Is there 19 anyone in the audience wishing to
address 20 the board regarding this case at this 21 time? 22
Seeing none, will the secretary 23 read any correspondence regarding
this 24 case into the record?
29
1
MEMBER IBE: Thank you, 2 Mr. Chairman. 3 There was 60 notices mailed
4 out: Two objections, one approval and 5 two mail returned. 6
First, I will go to the 7 approvals, since there's one approval. 8
That was an approval from a gentleman 9 named -- well, a company named
Gen-Mar 10 Properties, LLC, 2424 Cathy Lane, in 11 Novi, dated
3/4/2010. 12 The first objection is from Don 13 and Pam Van Dast of
25887 Junction, Novi. 14 And it reads, "Another excuse 15 to add
more noise and a stick it in the 16 face of the homeowners. History
tells us 17 what kind of neighbors they are now and 18 will be in
the future. A warehouse 19 becomes a distribution center, becomes 20
what?" 21 And the second objection is 22 from Nancy and George Mitts
of 43999 23 Stassen, Novi Heights Association. 24 And it reads,
"Dear Novi. I am
30
1 writing once again to
bring to the light 2 the issues of CVS. It took Novi five 3 years
and legal proceedings to get the 4 attached consent judgment against CVS
and 5 their noise into abutting residential. 6 "Please note
attached, they are 7 also asking the DNR to destroy remaining 8
wetlands, which they said they would 9 never do again, to build more
parking and 10 utilize more trucks. 11 "Special land use, not a
12 chance. They have outgrown their use for 13 this land. Let them
finally see it. 14 Years ago they portrayed this warehouse 15 and
overflow, just merchandise would be 16 housed. They would not use it
much, fine 17 for light industrial, not a full-fledged 18 industrial
site. They have rail service 19 to the building; let them use that.
20 "It took years to stop the 21 noise and vibration with a consent
22 judgment. What will they be housing with 23 huge chillers and
rotation units? Will 24 it be perishable goods? They told
31
1 residents only non-perishable goods would 2 be
there; you have nothing to worry 3 about. This is not supposed to be a
cold 4 storage locker. 5 "The consent judgment says no 6 noise
and zero noise coming from the land 7 and building from six p.m. to six
a.m. in 8 the morning. They would need to 9 soundproof the unit.
They are asking to 10 destroy wetlands; did they tell you that? 11
"We hear hi-lo's, music and 12 even the intercom at night from the area
13 where the huge west side fans are. These 14 are holes in the
wall. They need to wall 15 up the fans so no noise, zero noise at 16
night. Come to the aid of abutting 17 residential and the wetlands which
house 18 deer and deny them this use. 19 "If you grant them this
land 20 use, you will be assured there will be no 21 noise or
vibration heard or felt from the 22 warehouse. Also, no food items
stored, 23 no odors from the building, and to stop 24 the fans
permanently dismantled and the
32
1 west
side of the building finally closed 2 up as it should have been built.
The 3 noise from the chiller and rotation unit 4 coming through the
fan louvers will be 5 constant. When we attended the planning 6
commission years ago upon the first 7 mention of them building this
addition, 8 the plans were in the lobby and the west 9 side was
completely closed up. This won 10 our approval. When the building went
up, 11 the huge fans running top speed were put 12 in. No one knows
how it happened, but it 13 did, and here we are, consent judgment 14
and all these years later, still having 15 issues with CVS. 16 "The
emergency lane that CVS is 17 using as a second drive for trucks 18
abutting residential needs to be changed 19 to emergency vehicles only.
That is what 20 it is only supposed to be used for, but 21 what is
posted is allowing truck traffic. 22 They are using it as a circular
driveway. 23 If not the judgment stands and no new 24 noise from
land and building CVS.
33
1 "We have spent
too many years 2 getting what little peace we have from 3 them. They
never comply once CVS gets 4 their way. Don't let this happen again.
5 "The way I understand huge 6 chillers work, and these are not normal
7 chillers; they are huge. They are turned 8 on at night, cool a
building," and then I 9 guess she meant, "and in the morning the 10
rotation unit kicks in. 11 "No noise from six p.m. to six 12 a.m.,
this is the consent judgment. It 13 does not matter if they are on the
14 east" -- strike that. "It does not 15 matter if they are on the
east. We still 16 hear their noise over there. A unit 888 17 square
foot is the size of a home. Don't 18 tell us CVS will not be making more
19 noise. Under a blanket of special land 20 use, they will do
anything they want. 21 Just watch them. 22 "They represented to us
this 23 was a simple warehouse and only a few 24 people would be
working over there, no
34
1 noise. What a
laugh. 2 "Why a huge chiller unit? Let 3 CVS put a quiet air
conditioner unit on 4 the east side, if all they need to do is 5
cool the building. Not a chiller unit 6 running into the night and all
day. 7 "Special land use, they need to 8 move. This is a
neighborhood they moved 9 into, not a refrigerated warehouse area.
10 Step by step they are taking it beyond 11 light industrial. 12
"The building department says 13 it might cut down on the fan noise. Not
14 good enough. We need more than verbal 15 reassurances at this
time. Show us a 16 location that has a chiller unit this 17 big. Let
us hear it and see its effects. 18 I will bet it is not located by
abutting 19 residential. It should be the same 20 manufacturer and
maintenance on belts and 21 motors scheduled and properly maintained.
22 "We need to sit down with CVS 23 and the officials at Novi and
get in 24 writing the assurances we need for
35
1 abutting residential. We thought the 2 council meeting minutes
could hold them 3 to their words last time, but CVS knew 4 that was
not the case, and did create 5 more noise and vibration than was 6
promised. 7 "I am sure you have gone to 8 seminars addressing
vibration noises 9 coming from buildings and the effects on 10
residents. With all the new data, please 11 do not do more to us. I am
getting too 12 old to go through this again. If you can 13 cut out
the noise and vibration, then get 14 it in writing, no more messing
around 15 with verbal. 16 "The council meeting minutes 17 could
not hold CVS to their words last 18 time. Novi had to take them to
court. 19 We need the fans shut down and the holes 20 bricked shut.
The citizens of Novi do 21 not need to pay for another consent 22
judgment against CVS, and the press does 23 not need to hear about
another waste of 24 money that CVS will put us through when
36
1 it can be stopped now. 2 "Please investigate
and 3 consider the reason a chiller unit that 4 huge is needed. Air
condition units 5 belong to a light industrial operation, 6 but
chiller units that size belong beyond 7 light industrial. What are they
housing 8 that is beyond light industrial? Do not 9 give them
everything they always ask for 10 at our expense. This project should
need 11 our full cooperation and your 12 investigation of the
situation not like 13 last time. 14 "Help us. Do not give them a
15 blanket approval. You do not remember 16 how many meetings this
said," and she 17 quotes, "'We won't take any more 18 wetlands; we
will limit our trucks to 19 what we have now.' I have meeting 20
minutes that represent those words; I 21 would have to locate them. But
now they 22 want to destroy all the wetlands back 23 there and put
more trucks on their 24 location. Please take seriously our
37
1 stand on wetland protection in Novi. We 2 are
on wells. 3 "When will Novi say to CVS you 4 are no longer light
industrial and no 5 longer belong in abutting residential? 6 Mr.
Helwig and Savan had told us if they 7 ever go for special land, that is
when 8 CVS will have gone too far and no longer 9 belong by abutting
residential. That is 10 when we can deny use, limit noise. 11 "I
know how this sounds, and I 12 am sorry for burdening you with citizens'
13 problems. When CVS wanted to move in, no 14 problem. We had no
history with them. 15 Now there is history and past practice. 16
Light industry does not take more and 17 more wetlands, and put chiller
units in. 18 Please help us. 19 "A few years ago when CVS went
20 to the zoning board for special variance 21 to erect a sign, after
they already 22 erected it. Yes, once again they did as 23 they
pleased, but got caught. The zoning 24 commission told CVS they had an
unhappy
38
1 neighbor and please contact her
to 2 discuss the problems. That was five 3 years ago. At the meeting
they said, 4 yes, of course, telling the commission 5 anything they
wanted to hear. There was 6 never a word from them even though the 7
zoning board gave them our phone number. 8 Now after the judgment I
prefer never to 9 speak to them again. 10 "Novi inspectors believe
it 11 will cut down on fan noise. Not good 12 enough. We have been
there before. The 13 abutting residential needs guarantees and 14
research and written recourse if it turns 15 out bad for the residents
again. 16 "Cutting costs and saving money 17 is important in this
environment, but not 18 at the expense of the wild life and 19
residents. Please help us. Remember, 20 they are simultaneously asking
to build a 21 parking lot for more and more trucks on 22 wetlands.
That was not mentioned in the 23 application to you, was it? They are
24 using back doors trying to get one thing
39
1 in order to build on another project. 2 "Do not let this go
through 3 without taking us in consideration." 4 Signed Nancy Mitts.
5 And that's the objection. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 7 Does
the building department or city 8 attorney wish to make any comments at
9 this time? 10 MR. BOULARD: If I may, just a 11 couple comments.
I believe that the 12 letter, the Mitts' objection is the same 13
one that went to planning commission, and 14 planning commission saw
this for a 15 special use. But I'd like to just 16 clarify the parts
of the project that are 17 before the board tonight. 18 One is
installation of the 19 cooling tower or the chiller unit on the 20
east side of the building that's shown on 21 your -- on the drawings
that you have in 22 front of you. And that's the one 23 variance.
The zoning ordinance would 24 require that to be placed on the north
40
1 end or rear of the building in the rear
2 yard. The homes, residential area, is to 3 the west. And so the
proposed location 4 is actually the building between the 5 proposed
chiller and the residences. 6 The second request is for some 7 roof
top piping. The zoning ordinance 8 would typically require that to be
9 screened. In this particular case, you 10 know, the question is
whether, at least 11 in my mind, is what would be more 12 egregious,
having the piping there or 13 having the screening. I did note that
14 the piping was visible from the adjacent 15 roads, in this case, Novi
Road, by the 16 Main Street area, and brought that up 17 that it was
fairly visible. 18 One of the things that I think 19 the petitioner
would -- provided pictures 20 of, say, look, there is some options. So
21 just for the sake of discussions, they 22 brought that up. 23
Mark Spencer is here; he was 24 present at the planning commission and
41
1 can fill you in on requirements for
noise 2 study and things like that that came from 3 that area, if
you have any questions. 4 With that, he would be happy to answer 5
any questions, but I would probably defer 6 to Mark. 7 MS. KUDLA:
The mention of the 8 consent judgment, I just wanted to add 9 it's
my understanding those terms were 10 reviewed during the special land
use, and 11 they have already been considered. 12 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: 13 Mr. Spencer, do you care to add anything 14 to the
proceeding at this time? 15 MR. SPENCER: I will give you a 16 couple
quick comments. Just as Charles 17 mentioned, consideration about the
18 wetlands that was mentioned in the 19 neighbor's letter is not a
consideration 20 for you tonight. The applicant has 21 applied to
the State of Michigan for 22 wetland permit, but the applicant has not
23 applied to the city for a city wetland 24 permit, which they
would need.
42
1 There is also a city 2
conservation easement on the part of this 3 wetland that would have to
be rescinded 4 to be able to work on it, and there is no 5
additional parking lot improvements 6 proposed at this time. 7 We
agree with the applicant on 8 applying for a variance for the rooftop
9 equipment. And it was the planning 10 department's opinion that
this was a lot 11 less intrusive to see a six-foot pipe at 12 five
foot above the roof line, than to 13 put up a sheet metal screen wall
the 14 length of the building, basically this 15 would be, the
entire length of the 16 building. 17 And we agree with what was
18 mentioned on the sound issues, that 19 adding two building walls to
separate it 20 would buffer the sound a lot more than 21 putting it
on in the rear yard. So, we 22 agreed with, and had recommended that
23 location there. 24 So, if you got any other
43
1 questions on it, I will be glad to help 2 you with that.
3 Also, the planning commission 4 is requiring as a condition of
final site 5 plan approval this middle and full noise 6 analysis.
(Unintelligible) did submit a 7 noise impact statement. We agree --
8 staff agreed with the methodology of 9 that; it looked reasonable. But
the 10 planning commission asked for them to 11 produce the full
study, so they hired a 12 noise engineer already. 13 And as our
attorney mentioned, 14 they will have to comply with the consent 15
judgment. They have specific terms about 16 adding to noise coming from
the building, 17 and they will be held to that, so. 18 We and the
planning staff feels 19 comfortable with that, and the planning 20
commission added reference to that in 21 their approval at the special
land use 22 permit. 23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 24 Thank you.
44
1 MEMBER GHANNAM: I just have a 2
question. 3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Member 4 Ghannam. 5 MEMBER
GHANNAM: So from the 6 perspective of the planning commission, 7
these two requests are the lesser of two 8 evils, correct? In terms of
the location 9 of the piping as well as screening as 10 opposed to
middle screening? 11 MR. SPENCER: Yes, we felt it 12 was a better
location. We could have 13 told the applicant right away, put it in
14 the back yard. You wouldn't need a 15 variance; the planning
commission could 16 have approved it back there. But because 17 of
it being a special land use and noise 18 issues coming up, that was a
lot better 19 location. 20 This piece of property was in 21 an
I-1 district and not adjacent to 22 residential. Accessory structures
like 23 this go up all the time without going to 24 the planning
commission. So in this
45
1 case, because
they are next to 2 residential, it's a special land use for 3
accessory structures. 4 MEMBER GHANNAM: Thank you. 5 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Member 6 Krieger. 7 MEMBER KRIEGER: The chiller 8 unit
versus a different means of air 9 conditioning as the petitioner asked
for, 10 the differences in noise levels and the 11 rationale for
using it for air 12 conditioning for employees versus future 13
refrigeration of things. 14 MR. SPENCER: We are not aware 15 and we
do not have any permits as far as 16 even building permits that this
cooler 17 would be used for refrigeration. This is 18 a 400-ton air
conditioner basically. And 19 when comparing that to a five-ton 20
residential air conditioning, it sounds 21 like the appropriate size for
a 450,000 22 square-foot building. 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay. 24
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any other
46
1
questions? Member Skelcy. 2 MEMBER SKELCY: I'm going to 3 assume,
because I'm not very familiar 4 with chillers and the piping, that the
5 piping doesn't create any kind of noise 6 or clanging. 7 MR.
SPENCER: No. The 8 manufacturer's specifications for 9 installing
it, and assuming it was 10 installed to their specifications as a 11
gasket-type system, where it goes through 12 a roof, and it appears to
be. I don't 13 believe there would be any vibration from 14 it.
15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any other 16 questions? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI:
No. 18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 19 Mr. Spencer. 20 I will
open up the general 21 comments from the board. 22 Member Sanghvi.
23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 24 Mr. Chair. Question about wetland,
I
47
1 think this is beyond our scope this
2 evening. Talking about wetlands is not 3 what we are concerned
about tonight. 4 And as far as the site of the 5 chilling unit, if
you put it as it is 6 required, that is cure is worse than the 7
disease. The same would be true for the 8 skirting for the piping, also,
because 9 that would be far more obtrusive than 10 piping, which you
can barely see. And so 11 from my perspective, this is the best way
12 to go in providing cooling effect for the 13 building. And I vote --
I have no 14 difficulty in supporting this question. 15 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Thank you, 16 Member Sanghvi. Anybody else? 17 Okay. Seeing
that the board 18 members had the opportunity to speak, I 19 will
add my comments. 20 I have one question for the 21 applicant. If I
recall correctly, the 22 height of the pipes is 63 inches? 23 MR.
HAWKINSON: That's correct. 24 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Can it be
48
1 lower, closer to the roof? 2 MR. HAWKINSON: I
would say 3 yes, but not an easy way. When the 4 contractor was
selected to do the job, us 5 and the owners assumed they went through
6 all the proper procedures. And I would 7 say half-way,
three-quarters of the way 8 through the project, we were informed 9
that there were inadequate things that 10 were done on the contractor
side, so 11 that's why that point the project was 12 halted, and we
proceeded to, you know, 13 come to the board meetings and to resolve
14 the issue. 15 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Not being 16 a heating and
cooling engineer, why does 17 it have to be that height? Why is it
18 that height? 19 MR. HAWKINSON: The reason for 20 the height is
one for the parapit between 21 the two buildings. You have one side of
22 the addition that was put in in 1985, and 23 the other addition
put in 1995. And for 24 the height to be able to parapit, it
49
1 ended up being -- it's pretty much as low 2
as they can go across the two facilities. 3 The reason for the roof
instead of the 4 inside of the facilities, because it's 5 stronger
for a support system to sit over 6 column beams than it is to be hung.
7 Inside the facility, if you have ever 8 been inside, we have
(unintelligible) and 9 piping unfortunately would sit down much 10
lower into hi-lo traffic. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank 12 you. With
that, I will entertain a 13 motion. Charles? 14 MR. BOULARD: If I
could. One, 15 as I understand it, there is also a need 16 for the
pipe to pitch. 17 MR. HAWKINSON: That is 18 correct. The system
requires not as many 19 bends or valleys; it's what they call 20
trapment. So, yeah, for efficiency of 21 the system, what it has to do
is elevate 22 from a certain level and pitch all the 23 way down
actually to connect to the 24 chiller unit.
50
1 MR. BOULARD: If I could add, 2 one of the things that you
forwarded, 3 photographs today of the piping painted 4 out. 5
MR. HAWKINSON: Yeah. 6 MR. BOULARD: And so if there 7 was -- if that
was part of what was 8 recommended or approved by the board, if 9 we
could just be clear so these folks 10 know what the expectations are.
11 MR. HAWKSINSON: Sure. 12 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Anyone for 13 a
motion? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: I will make a 15 motion. 16
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: 17 Mr. Sanghvi, go ahead. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI:
Case No. 19 10-004, 43800 Gen-Mar, CVS Pharmacy. I 20 move that we
grant the request of the 21 petitioner, taking into consideration the
22 alternate of putting the chilling unit in 23 the rear, and I
believe that site much 24 more preferable. And, also, providing
51
1 the screening for the piping will be far 2
more pleasing than leaving them where 3 they are. And the variance will
not 4 pro-create -- this is not a self-created 5 problem. There is
adequate light and air 6 is provided to all adjacent property. 7
There is no increase of fire danger or 8 public safety. And the spirit
of the 9 zoning ordinance is observed. 10 MEMBER GHANNAM: Second.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 12 motion by Member Sanghvi, and a
13 second by Member Ghannam. 14 Any discussion? 15 MEMBER
SKELCY: Should we 16 include the fact we want it painted black 17 as
part of the motion? 18 MS. KUDLA: Is that a planning 19 commission
requirement? 20 MR. BOULARD: I don't believe 21 that was added, is
that correct? 22 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Do we add 23 that? 24
MEMBER SKELCY: We need to add
52
1 that to
amend the motion to include the 2 fact that we would like the piping to
be 3 painted black as it was shown in your 4 proposal. 5 MEMBER
SANGHVI: I don't think 6 it makes a difference one way or the 7
other. If you like it, go ahead and put 8 it in. I have no problem.
9 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: It's okay, 10 Member Sanghvi and Member Ghannam?
11 MEMBER GHANNAM: I accept, 12 also. 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Any
other 14 comment or questions? If not, 15 Ms. Martin, please call
the roll. 16 MS. MARTIN: Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
18 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 19 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN:
Member Ibe? 21 MEMBER IBE: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel? 23
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 24 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam?
53
1 MEMBER GHANNAM: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy?
3 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Gedeon? 5 MEMBER
GEDEON: Yes. 6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: The motion 7 passes, and you have
been approved. 8 I will have Member Cassis 9 returning. Here he
comes. 10 Okay. The final case of the 11 evening is case number
ZBA10-005, 27790 12 Novi Road, Hotel Baronette. 13 Petitioner is
requesting a 14 variance to allow installation of a 7.5 15 square
foot drive identification sign on 16 the south driveway entrance, and
four 17 additional wall signs as follows: 82.18 18 square feet on
the east elevation, a 19 32.42 square foot on the north elevation,
20 26.57 square feet on the east elevation, 21 and 24.27 square feet on
the west 22 elevation of the building located at 23 27790 Novi Road.
24 The property is zoned RC, and
54
1 is
located east of Novi Road and south of 2 Twelve Mile Road. 3 Is the
petitioner here? 4 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir. Good 5 evening. My name
is Steven Whitkins 6 (ph). Office address is 2510 Carey 7 Street,
Suite 102, Lansing, Michigan. 8 And I am not an attorney. 9 MEMBER
IBE: Sir, in Case No. 10 ZBA10-005, do you swear or affirm to tell
11 the truth? 12 MR. WHITKINS: I do. 13 MEMBER IBE: Thank you. 14
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank 15 you. 16 MR. WHITKINS: One point of
17 clarification, when we read this, the 18 82.18 square foot sign is
actually on the 19 south elevation of the building, not the 20 east.
Just to bring that up. 21 As many of you probably know, 22 we are
undergoing a renovation and 23 conversion to a Marriott Renaissance
24 Hotel. As part of that process, Marriott
55
1 has requested that we install an 2 architectural iconic element on
the 3 building. 4 When the building was 5 originally built, it
looks like an office 6 building and not much like a hotel. The 7
majority of our customers come from 8 outside the area. Many of them are
9 international guests that fly in. Many 10 of them are there for
the first time or 11 very seldom do they come there. 12 To start
with, the signs that 13 we got, the seven-and-a-half square foot 14
drive sign will be installed on the 15 finger road. We have approval
from the 16 City of Novi and from the Taubman Group 17 at Twelve
Oaks Mall to install a cut in 18 the finger road going into the mall, so
19 they don't have to go down one of the 20 ring roads and come in.
That will be a 21 new entrance sign. And the signs that 22 were
already approved at the other two 23 drives would be re-done, and they
would 24 all be matching. So that would provide
56
1 people with the identification to use 2 that sign to enter
the property without 3 having to go all the way down to the ring 4
road. 5 As for the four additional wall 6 signs, the 82.18 square
foot sign to the 7 south, what happens when you are driving 8 up
Twelve Mile -- when you are driving up 9 Novi Road, which is now seven
lanes wide 10 in front of the hotel, this provides 11 identification
from the south to know 12 that you need to turn at the finger road.
13 We have no direct access from Novi Road; 14 all of our access comes
off the finger 15 road or the ring road of the mall. It 16 allows
people from out of town to 17 identify the hotel as a Renaissance 18
Hotel, which is part of the Marriott 19 chain. And they have an
international 20 website that drives a lot of business. 21 Sign K,
which faces to the 22 north side and is located on the iconic 23
element, allows people from Twelve Mile 24 Road to understand they need
to get into
57
1 the left-turn lane to make
the turn into 2 the finger road there at the left-turn 3 light where
that is located. If you end 4 up coming off Twelve Mile Road, and you
5 are on the right-hand side, you have to 6 cross four lanes of
traffic to get to the 7 left-turn lane. 8 As many of you know, there
has 9 been quite a bit of road construction at 10 Novi Road and
I-96, and I think all of 11 next year all the traffic coming to the
12 property off of the highway interchange 13 system will probably be
driven up M-5 and 14 off Beck Road up to Twelve Mile Road and 15
have to come south on Novi Road to get to 16 the property. So there will
be quite a 17 few people trying to find and locate the 18 hotel,
because my understanding is that 19 the exit ramps from I-96 are going
to be 20 closed this summer for reconstruction. 21 Plus, we do have
a lot of 22 traffic that comes off from Twelve Mile 23 Road, which
is a four-lane road and 24 serves a lot of the office buildings,
58
1 engineering companies and automotive 2
companies we do business with up in that 3 area. 4 Sign K, Sign L,
which faces to 5 the west is the Baronette sign that would 6 be
located on -- there is a metal panel 7 being installed on the building.
We did 8 receive our approval for our facade 9 review for our
architectural iconic 10 element the other day. One of the things 11
we want to do as well as the Renaissance 12 name, we felt it was very
important to 13 retain the heritage of the Baronette that 14 it's
known here. Marriott has continued 15 to allow us to continue to use
that name, 16 and that's where that sign would be 17 located. The
Baronette sign would be 18 located there as well as on the entrance
19 signs to the property. 20 The last sign is sign H, which 21 is on
the east side of the building. We 22 are going to have a new restaurant
that's 23 under construction right now called 24 Toasted Oak Grill
and Market. It will
59
1 have its own
separate side street 2 entrance, so to speak, on the east side 3 of
the building. And that would go over 4 the vestibule, which is now under
5 construction; we started construction on 6 that the other day.
7 I would be happy to answer any 8 questions that you might have. 9
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 10 Is there anyone in the audience
wishing 11 to address the board regarding this case? 12 Seeing none,
will the secretary 13 read any correspondence regarding this 14
case? 15 MEMBER IBE: Yes, Mr. Chair. 16 There were 23 notices
mailed, zero 17 responses, three mail returned. 18 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Does the 19 building department or city attorney wish 20 to
make any comments? 21 MS. KUDLA: No. 22 MR. BOULARD: Nothing to add.
23 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 24 Thank you. At this time, I will turn
60
1 this matter over to the board for 2
discussion. 3 Member Ibe. 4 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, I 5 really
don't have any questions. I want 6 to congratulate the applicants for
the 7 good work they are doing. It appears as 8 if when the
construction is finally 9 finished, I am looking forward to coming
10 there, and I have no problem with this. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank
you. 12 Member Cassis. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Thank you, 14 Mr.
Chairman. Just to make sense for me, 15 as much as I have looked where
every sign 16 is located, I just wanted to ask the 17 applicant what
each one of those, A and E 18 and C and so on. I presume those are the
19 locations of each one of those signs. 20 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir.
On 21 the site plan, yes, sir. As they relate 22 to the signs that
are attached. 23 MEMBER CASSIS: You asking for 24 two, four, six,
eight signs?
61
1 MR. WHITKINS: Three of
those 2 signs are directional signs at the 3 entrances from the
finger road and the 4 ring road. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. Can you 6
designate to me -- I'm just trying to 7 make sense here. Which ones are
the 8 direction? 9 MR. WHITKINS: Which one are -- 10 MEMBER
CASSIS: The directional 11 signs. 12 MR. WHITKINS: That would be
13 sign D. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: In letters. 15 MR. WHITKINS: Sign D,
which is 16 down by where the Verizon and Hagopian 17 driveway is.
There is currently a Hotel 18 Baronette sign there currently. That's
19 just being replaced with a new sign; 20 there is no variance
requested. 21 MEMBER CASSIS: How large is 22 that sign? 23 MR.
WHITKINS: That sign is 24 seven-and-a-half feet. And I believe in
62
1 1991 a variance was granted to allow for
2 the placement of a seven-and-a-half foot 3 sign, and that is under
board of appeals 4 case 9155-A. So that's seven-and-a-half 5 feet.
6 I believe, if you look at your 7 drawing, you will see on the --
on page 8 two of -- page two of eight of the sign 9 drawings, you
see C, D and F, the 10 elevation of -- did you receive that, or 11
not? And you may -- 12 I've got a copy here I can 13 share with you.
You are like me, I got 14 way too many papers. Here you go. This 15
is the directional sign. 16 MEMBER CASSIS: This one 17 here, right
here? 18 MR. WHITKINS: Yeah, C, D and 19 F. 20 MEMBER CASSIS:
That's what I'm 21 looking at. The present sign right now 22 is the
same size? 23 MR. WHITKINS: D and C, they 24 were both -- I don't
know if it's
63
1 seven-and-a-half square
feet. It was 2 approved for seven-and-a-half square 3 feet. When you
take the base and 4 everything and the illuminated box, it's 5
seven-and-a-half square feet. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. Now, C 7 is the
one that you want the people in 8 the mall to see, is that it? 9 MR.
WHITKINS: C and D are -- 10 this is sign D right here down by the 11
Hagopian store; there is currently a sign 12 there right now. 13
MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah. 14 MR. WHITKINS: We are replacing 15 the signs;
I think they are 19 years 16 old. 17 MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. 18 MR.
WHITKINS: They are ready 19 to be replaced. Sign C, there is 20
currently a sign here at location C, 21 which is the cut-off of the ring
road, 22 also, that's there currently. And there 23 is currently
already a directional sign 24 there.
64
1
MEMBER CASSIS: That's meant 2 for the mall people, is that it? 3 MR.
WHITKINS: That's meant for 4 anybody using the ring road to enter the
5 property. 6 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah. 7 MR. WHITKINS: That's an
8 entrance to drive to the property. 9 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah, but that
10 is into the mall, isn't it? 11 MR. WHITKINS: All of our 12
entrances to the property are off the 13 ring road right now. We do have
an 14 approval to put a cut through the finger 15 road. And the sign
we are requesting the 16 variance for is directional sign F. 17
MEMBER CASSIS: Okay. 18 MR. WHITKINS: By code we are 19 allowed I
believe a three square foot 20 sign there. What we are doing is we are
21 doing a seven-and-a-half square foot sign 22 which matches the
two seven-and-a-half 23 square foot signs that were previously 24
approved at the other two entrances in
65
1
1991. 2 If you look at F, this location 3 right here, this is where
the new -- 4 there will be a cut in this finger road 5 to make a
left turn into the hotel 6 without going all the way down to the 7
three-way stop at the ring road, making 8 another left turn. 9
MEMBER CASSIS: Isn't there a 10 median there? 11 MR. WHITKINS: Yes,
but we got 12 approval from Taubman Group and City of 13 Novi to
install a left-turn lane. 14 MEMBER CASSIS: Oh. 15 MR. WHITKINS: So
it allows a 16 little easier access to the hotel for the 17 guests
coming in, because, otherwise, now 18 you have to go down and turn left.
When 19 they re-did the ring road, I don't know 20 if you noticed,
they stripe the roadway 21 and put yellow stripes so it almost looks
22 like you can't cross the yellow stripes 23 to enter the first drive.
You drive down 24 and pass Hagopian, and you are already
66
1 down to Verizon before you think you can 2 turn
into the property. It becomes very 3 difficult. So that's the F sign
4 directional. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: And the 6 engineer of the city
approved of that 7 left-turn lane? 8 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, sir, that's
9 all been approved. 10 MEMBER CASSIS: Then E and H 11 are just
in front of the building, is 12 that it? 13 MR. WHITKINS: Yes, E and
H -- 14 now you got me -- E, there is 15 currently -- 16 MEMBER
CASSIS: H. 17 MR. WHITKINS: There is 18 currently a Hotel Baronette
sign up there 19 on the parapit wall. What we are doing 20 is that
is going to be reconfigured; it's 21 going to say "R" Renaissance. There
is 22 no variance being requested for that, but 23 since we have the
entrance -- as you see 24 in elevation H, if you remember when the
67
1 Hotel Baronette was built, this was the
2 entrance to the bakery that was there. 3 We are re-opening that entry
for the 4 restaurant, because we have a number of 5 people that eat
that don't necessarily 6 stay at the hotel. We do a lot of 7
business with local businesses, local 8 people. And the Toasted Oak
Grill and 9 Market will be the name of the new 10 restaurant. This
is -- the vestibule is 11 under construction, and that's a sign to
12 identify that entrance to that business. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: E is --
14 MR. WHITKINS: E is the -- 15 there is really no variance
requested. 16 That sign is already permitted by right 17 there, and
it's the -- I think if you 18 look at it, instead of saying 19 "Baronette,"
it says "R Renaissance," 20 which is the Marriott brand hotel that
21 the franchise is under. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: You really need 23 the
R to say Renaissance, and also need 24 Toasted Oak.
68
1 MR. WHITKINS: Two distinct 2 businesses there: One is a
restaurant, 3 and one is a hotel. 4 MEMBER CASSIS: All right. 5
Well, you know, I guess there is a reason 6 for every one of those, but
I have never 7 seen so many signs. 8 MR. WHITKINS: One of the 9
things I'd like to explain is the type of 10 signs we are using, the
letters are LED, 11 back-lit letters. So during the day they 12 are
brown, and at night the LED light 13 shines through them. The actual
square 14 footage of illumination at night is much 15 less, and much
less than what's currently 16 -- especially on the front of the 17
building. I don't have the exact square 18 footage, just what the
letters are. 19 If you are familiar with the 20 Twelve Oaks letters,
at night just the 21 letters shine out white on the dark 22
background. That's the same way our 23 signs will work. And they are all
LED, 24 very energy efficient, long-standing
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1 light bulbs, and all that. What happens 2 is it's a very much
more elegant sign, 3 much more keeping with the upscale Twelve 4
Oaks Mall and the hotel. 5 MEMBER CASSIS: I can see these 6 are very
well done signs, but the issue 7 is never seen so many signs. Even the
8 one we entertained for -- what was the 9 name of it, couple of
months ago, the 10 hotel. 11 MEMBER KRIEGER: The one across 12
the street, Crown Plaza. 13 MEMBER CASSIS: Yeah. 14 MR. WHITKINS:
One of the 15 things that's unique about our property, 16 we have
270 degrees. We have frontage on 17 the finger road, we have frontage on
the 18 ring road, we have frontage on Novi Road. 19 We have a
seven-lane road with a very 20 short span from Twelve Mile Road from
21 that. 22 MEMBER CASSIS: I know, but how 23 many signs can you put
to identify hotel? 24 What is it, Renaissance now. You are
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1 also getting people that are referred to 2 you
over the internet, so on and so 3 forth. 4 MR. WHITKINS: So what
happens, 5 you got people that are very unfamiliar 6 with the area,
looking for the turn, 7 trying to identify the building, and in 8 an
area of traffic that's seven lanes 9 wide. And you have to make a
three-lane 10 maneuver. So the better we can identify 11 that, the
safer it makes it for those 12 guests to get into the building safely.
13 MEMBER CASSIS: Mr. Chairman, I 14 guess my task here was hopefully to
try 15 to identify some of these for myself and 16 for those of us
that need it; maybe 17 nobody did. I would wait for my 18 colleagues
to see what their opinions 19 are. To me, there is just too many signs
20 here, and I haven't zeroed in on which 21 ones could be dispensed
with. 22 Thank you very much, Mr. 23 Chairman. 24 CHAIRPERSON
WROBEL: Thank you,
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1 Mr. Cassis. Next?
Member Sanghvi. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, 3 Mr. Chairman. I have
been looked at 4 every single sign they are proposing to 5 erect.
And I have been in this area for 6 a long time, and if you don't come
from 7 Novi, it's really hard to find Baronette 8 Hotel at any
entrance, unless you know it 9 is through the mall. And the direction
10 of signs go to that place are as 11 important as the big signs to
identify 12 the building. Even if you identify the 13 building, if
you don't know how to get 14 there, it's not going to be easy. And
15 especially now that Twelve Mile Road is 16 being widened to the size
it is now. 17 It's almost like a highway. And if you 18 drive where
you realize a lot of people 19 drive like it is the highway. 20 I
haven't found a single sign 21 here which I would have a problem with,
22 because they all help people to get to 23 this place. And to be
quite honest, I 24 have no hesitation in supporting the
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1 applicant's request for all the signs 2 they want.
The more signs, the better, 3 my opinion, so you don't get in accident,
4 and you find the place without wasting 5 any time. Thank you.
6 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you, 7 Member Sanghvi. 8 Member Ghannam.
9 MEMBER GHANNAM: I agree with 10 both of our speakers here. There
seems 11 to be too many, but yet there are 12 justifications. I
understand the unusual 13 aspect of this particular hotel. It's 14
undergoing a re-imaging, and the 15 franchise I'm sure have their own
16 requirements. You need identification; 17 you are on a very
extremely busy road. 18 And you got a new cut on, you know, where 19
you indicated in terms of entrances and 20 so forth. You have a separate
business 21 and restaurants. But although numbers is 22 not all we
look at. The question is are 23 they necessary and do they meet our
24 standards, and I tend to agree. So I
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1
wouldn't have any problems supporting all 2 the signs as requested.
3 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 4 Member Krieger. 5 MEMBER KRIEGER:
I agree that 6 there are a lot of signs. I tried 7 looking for them
actually, and I knew 8 where the Hotel Baronette was because I 9
know where it's at. As far as getting at 10 the building, that was a job
in itself, 11 so I can understand the directional 12 signs. Whether
they need a variance to 13 be all equal, or whether F could be at a
14 different size. As long as someone could 15 visually see it and know
that's where 16 they have to go, I don't know that it 17 would have
to be a bigger size. I know 18 for K on the north side, Gorman's is on
19 that corner. You can't turn left at 20 Twelve Mile and Novi Road,
so that would 21 be the only one I question. 22 Other than that, it
would be 23 like the same as the Crown Plaza; it's 24 difficult to
access.
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1 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you.
2 Any another comments? Member Gedeon. 3 MEMBER GEDEON: I would just
4 further add that I don't have an issue 5 with the number of signs.
Like was said 6 previously, there are certain 7 justifications here.
And I also add, the 8 majority of these are wall signs as 9 opposed
to standalone signs, which I 10 think are less of a visual affront.
11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Thank you. 12 Any other comments? I will put my
13 comments on the record now. 14 First off, thank you for 15
investing again in Novi and upgrading it. 16 It's welcomed. 17 I
have been here since the 18 hotel first came, and I drive by the 19
location all the time, and I know where 20 it is, but even I have a hard
time 21 finding it, looking at it, because it 22 just blends in. So
I understand what 23 Mr. Cassis is saying there are too many 24
signs, and I agree with it. I don't like
75
1 too many signs. But knowing the area and 2 the confusion that I have,
I see where 3 the signs are needed, so I would support 4 it in this
matter. 5 Any other comments on this 6 issue? If not, I will
entertain a 7 motion. 8 MEMBER IBE: Mr. Chair, Case 9 No. 10-005,
27790 Novi Road, Hotel 10 Baronette, I move that we grant the 11
petitioner's request as requested, for 12 the reasons that the request
is based 13 upon circumstances of features that are 14 exceptional
and unique, in that the 15 fronts on both of the hotel is both on 16
Novi Road and the mall ring road and at 17 different levels. So it makes
getting in 18 there very difficult; hence, the signs 19 coming in
very handy. 20 Furthermore, the failure to 21 grant relief
unreasonably prevent or 22 limit the use of the property, and will
23 result in substantially -- I'm sorry, 24 will result in inability to
attain a
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1 higher economic or financial
return for 2 the owners of the property. 3 And, finally, the grant
of 4 relief will not result in a use of a 5 structure that is
incompatible with 6 adjacent surrounding properties, and this 7 will
also serve the spirit of the 8 ordinance. Thank you. 9 MEMBER
GHANNAM: I would 10 second. 11 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 12
motion by Member Ibe, and a second by 13 Member Ghannam. Any other
comments? 14 Ms. Martin, please call the 15 roll. 16 MS. MARTIN:
Member Sanghvi? 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 18 MS. MARTIN: Member
Cassis? 19 MEMBER CASSIS: Yes. 20 MS. MARTIN: Member Krieger? 21
MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 22 MS. MARTIN: Member Ibe? 23 MEMBER IBE: Yes.
24 MS. MARTIN: Chairman Wrobel?
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1
CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Yes. 2 MS. MARTIN: Member Ghannam? 3 MEMBER
GHANNAM: Yes. 4 MS. MARTIN: Member Skelcy? 5 MEMBER SKELCY: Yes.
6 MS. MARTIN: Motion passes, 7 seven to zero. 8 MR. WHITKINS: Thank
you very 9 much for your time this evening. I hope 10 you get a
chance to come out and see us 11 when we are done, which we hope is
12 shortly. Thanks. 13 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 14 That brings us
to the other matter 15 section of the meeting. Does city staff 16 or
attorney have any issues to discuss 17 with us? 18 MS. KUDLA: No.
19 MR. BOULARD: No. 20 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Board 21 members,
anything else to discuss? 22 Member Cassis, anything you 23 want to
add? 24 MEMBER CASSIS: No, we are
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1
okay. 2 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. I 3 will just make a comment. I
want to 4 thank Member Sanghvi for his past years 5 of leadership,
hard shoes to fill. I 6 don't know how you did it to keep things 7
going at the same time. Hopefully, I 8 will live up to your
expectations. 9 That concludes our business for 10 the evening, and
I will entertain a 11 motion to adjourn. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So move.
13 MEMBER IBE: Second. 14 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: We have a 15
motion and second. All in favor, say 16 aye. 17 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye.
18 CHAIRPERSON WROBEL: Okay. 19 Meeting is adjourned. 20 (The
meeting was adjourned at 21 8:11 p.m.) 22 - - - 23 24
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1 2 3 C E R T I F I C A T E 4
5 I, Sherri L. Ruff, do hereby certify 6 that I have recorded
stenographically the 7 proceedings had and testimony taken in 8 the
above-entitled matter at the time and 9 place hereinbefore set forth,
and I do 10 further certify that the foregoing 11 transcript,
consisting of (56) 12 typewritten pages, is a true and correct 13
transcript of my said stenographic notes. 14 15 16 ____________
_____________________ Date Sherri L. Ruff, CSR-3568 17 Certified
Shorthand Reporter 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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