| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING - ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of the ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS, at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Mile Road, Novi, Michigan, Tuesday, January 11 9, 2007. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY:
1 Novi, Michigan 2 Tuesday, 3 January 9, 2007 4 7:30 p.m. 5 - - - - - - 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'd like to call to order 7 the January 2007 meeting of the City of Novi 8 Zoning Board of Appeals. 9 Would you please all rise and join me in the 10 Pledge of Allegiance. 11 BOARD MEMBERS: I pledge allegiance to the 12 flag of the United State of America. And to 13 the Republic for which it stands, one 14 nation, under God, indivisible with liberty 15 and justice for all. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Ms. Working, would you 17 please call the roll. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Canup? 19 Member Fischer? 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Present. 21 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 22 MEMBER GATT: Here. 23 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Here.
4 1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Here. 3 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 4 MEMBER SHROYER: Here. 5 MEMBER WORKING: Member Krieger. 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Here. 7 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chairman, everyone 8 present except Member Canup. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. We do have a 10 quorum and the meeting is now in session. 11 I would like to go over the rules 12 of conduct. You can find them on the 13 agenda. Just a friendly reminder, please 14 turn off all your cell phones and pagers. 15 Individual applicants may take five minutes 16 and the groups may take up to ten minutes to 17 address the Board. 18 Zoning Board of Appeals is a 19 Hearing Board empowered by the Novi City 20 Charter to hear appeals seeking variances 21 from the application of the Novi Zoning 22 Ordinances. It takes a Board of at least 23 four members to approve a variance request 24 and the vote of the majority of members
5 1 present to deny a variance. 2 Tonight we have a full vote so 3 all decisions made will be final. 4 (Unintelligible) Are there any changes on 5 the future that we have? 6 ROBIN WORKING: No changes. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes? 8 MEMBER SHROYER: I wanted to ask because we 9 have in our packet case number 06-083 that 10 has been tabled. Has that been advertised? 11 We probably need to have it tabled now. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Which case is that? 13 MEMBER SHROYER: That's (unintelligible) 14 Novi Retail, LLC. 15 ROBIN WORKING: That case was advertised in 16 November and they have officially been 17 tabled in the February meeting. 18 MEMBER SHROYER: Then do we need to include 19 it in the agenda to grant the tabling? 20 ROBIN WORKING: No. 21 MEMBER SHROYER: I have no additions to the 22 agenda. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 24 Anybody else?
6 1 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to approve. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes? 3 MR. SAVEN: Just a point of interest. I 4 would like to bring up under other matters a 5 starting time for the ZBA, please, as item 6 number two. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Motion to approve as 8 amended. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been made and 11 seconded. 12 Would you please call the roll. 13 All in favor please say aye. 14 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, (unintelligible). Do 16 we have minutes today? 17 ROBIN WORKING: Yes. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: We have minutes. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Move to approve. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: A Motion has been made to 21 approve the minutes in the November meeting. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Second. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been seconded. 24 All those in favor of accepting the minutes
7 1 as presented please signify by saying aye. 2 BOARD MEMBERS: Aye. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: All opposed same sign. 4 All right. At this point the 5 meeting is open for public remarks section. 6 Is there anybody in the audience who would 7 like to address the Board and wishes to make 8 comment not pertaining to any matter which 9 is on the agenda today? If anybody would 10 like to please come forward now. 11 Seeing none, we go to public 12 remarks section. And this brings us to the 13 first case on agenda. 14 Case number: 06-091 filed by Brad Wilson of 15 Callison Architecture for 27640 Novi Road 16 Nordstrom located at Twelve Oaks Mall. 17 This case was tabled from 18 December. Is Mr. Wilson here? 19 MR. WILSON: Yes. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you please come 21 forward. Identify yourself, state your name 22 and address and be sworn by our secretary. 23 MR. WILSON: Thank you. Brad Wilson, 24 Callison 1420 Fifth Avenue, Seattle,
8 1 Washington 982 -- excuse me, 992. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand. Do you 3 swear or affirm to tell the truth regarding 4 case: 06-091? 5 MR. WILSON: Yes. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. Go ahead. 7 MR. WILSON: Thank you. Thank you, and I 8 appreciate having us back. 9 I would just like to recap a 10 little bit from the last meeting and go 11 through a few points of our previous 12 proposal and state, review the discussion of 13 points from the ZBA from last meeting and 14 then our new proposal. 15 Previously the variance was 16 requested for the area of 217 square feet 17 for three separate signs at Twelve Oaks, 18 Nordstrom at Twelve Oaks. The sign 19 Ordinance had limited to 65 square feet at 20 which we were proposing a 217 square foot 21 sign -- or excuse me, three 217 square foot 22 signs. Signs composed of individually faced 23 letters and were illuminated and each sign 24 was centered over the entrance way.
9 1 Regarding the points of 2 discussion from the last ZBA meeting, 3 objections were raised by the neighbor and 4 condominium management companies on behalf 5 of the other residents, which I believe 6 those items were, didn't see any issues with 7 the overall, the ZBA did not see any issues 8 with it. 9 What seemed to be the major point 10 of discussion was the overall sign size. 11 And what we have gone back to and looked at, 12 what we have gone back and looked at was the 13 direction from the Board, looking at 14 reducing the signs. And we have gone back 15 and decided to reduce the size to 195 square 16 feet which the old sign was approximately 17 five feet high by -- excuse me, 43 feet 18 long. And the new signs are 4 foot 9 by 19 approximately 41 feet in the area of 20 195 square feet. 21 This would make, this adjustment 22 would make the sign a full foot, a full one 23 foot three inches smaller than the present 24 signs out at Novi Road at the other existing
10 1 entrance. 2 The new sign proposal size would 3 align itself very closely with that of the 4 other existing neighbors as I believe one of 5 the Members requested last time around 195, 6 192 square feet. 7 Just to kind of wrap it up, I 8 think Nordstrom, the signs aren't 9 significantly different than what is out 10 there right now, and we hope that the 11 proposal can be put forward and accepted. 12 Thank you. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Does anyone in 14 the audience wish to address the Board 15 regarding this case? 16 Seeing none, I have informed the 17 Board that 196 notices were mailed, four 18 approval, six objections. 19 Mr. Secretary? 20 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chair, if it pleases the 21 Chair, there were no new objections or no 22 new approvals from the meeting last month. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: This is the same as the 24 last meeting, okay. Thank you. Then we
11 1 don't need to go into that. 2 All right, then we move on and go 3 to, Building Department, any comments? Yes, 4 Mr. Saven? 5 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, Members of the Board, 6 at the last meeting as you could tell there 7 was so much concern about the number of 8 signs and whatever the size of the sign, 9 what the sign looked like, what have you. 10 As you are aware we do require mock-ups to 11 be placed. The mock-up in this particular 12 case has a white background with the 13 letters. These are individually illuminated 14 letters, the white background certainly 15 makes it look larger than probably what it 16 is. 17 The direction of the Board although not 18 formally is an issue that they looked at as 19 reducing the size of the sign to which they 20 took the Board's advice and they did do 21 this. And the fact is that these are three 22 separate signs which for each individual 23 anchor store within the mall there are three 24 signs, so this is pretty well consistent
12 1 with what was happening in this particular 2 area. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Saven. 4 I will open up to the Board for 5 discussion now. Yes, Mr. Bauer? 6 MEMBER BAUER: Al, what is Macy's sign? 7 MR. AMOLSCH: You want the size of it? 8 32 feet by 6 feet for 192 square feet. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: As stated before I have no 12 real issue with the three signs. I 13 appreciate and applaud your efforts to bring 14 it down to something we see as more 15 consistent that, certainly not speaking for 16 everyone, but especially for myself, 17 something I see as more consistent with the 18 other stores, so I know it's just kind of 19 last time it was, oh, it's just 20 square 20 feet, but 20 square feet in the principle of 21 everything makes a big difference to me. So 22 I applaud you and appreciate that. 23 I would like to go into the 24 illumination for one second. What is the
13 1 plans for illumination is this 24/7? 2 MR. WILSON: Currently that's what the plan 3 is. Nordstrom has in the past gone and 4 looked at putting them on a photo timer. 5 They would be off during the hours of 6 probably midnight and 6:00, hours of 7 non-operation. 8 MEMBER FISCHER: I don't know where the 9 Board stands on that, but I drove by the 10 mall this morning 5:00, 5:30 and there were 11 no other anchor stores that had their lights 12 on and that was a little point of contention 13 for me personally. I will see where the 14 Board sits with that issue, see what they 15 have to say. But other than that I have no 16 issues with approving everything else we 17 see. 18 And once again, thank you very 19 much and we look forward to having you guys 20 here. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Ms. Krieger? 22 MS. KRIEGER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 23 I also wanted to thank you for, 24 reiterate, thank you for taking our
14 1 concerns at heart and reviewing them. 2 And that when I drove by I also see no 3 concern, as we said, it looks much better. 4 And for 195 square feet I would have no 5 difficulty approving that also. 6 And then regarding to light. 7 What time do the other, do some of the other 8 stores turn off their lights? 9 MR. AMOLSCH: The City has no restrictions 10 on the illumination of signs, when they can 11 turn on and when they have to go off. The 12 Board certainly can put that in a Motion for 13 ruling. 14 MS. KRIEGER: Okay. I guess if there was a 15 uniformity of it that we could take into 16 consideration. Then that's all I have. 17 Thank you. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr. 19 Shroyer? 20 MR. SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too 21 thank you. 195 was the maximum that I said 22 that I would consider so I have to maintain 23 truth to my word. 24 So with that I will be making a Motion in
15 1 case number: 06-091 filed by Brad Wilson of 2 Callison Architecture for 27640 Novi Road, 3 Nordstrom located at Twelve Oaks Mall. I 4 note to approve all variances to permit 5 three exterior illuminated wall signs not to 6 exceed 195 square feet per sign provided 7 illumination hours of operation is 8 consistent with the other anchor stores. 9 These variances are maintained in 10 consistency in numbers and sizes with the 11 signs of pre-existing anchor stores at the 12 mall and will allow for directional 13 assistance for customers looking for the 14 Nordstrom entrances. 15 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has 17 been made and seconded. Seeing no further 18 discussion, Ms. Working, will the please 19 call the roll. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 21 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 24 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer?
16 1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 4 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 5 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 6 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 7 MS. KRIEGER: Yes. 8 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 10 MR. WILSON: Thank you. I appreciate your 11 (unintelligible). 12 MR. SHROYER: Welcome to Novi. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer. 14 And all the best to your business 15 and everything else. 16 MR. WILSON: Thank you. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right, moving on. Case 18 number: 06-095, filed by Triangle Main 19 Street, LLC, for Novi Main Street located 20 east of Novi Road. Are you representing 21 that? 22 MR. JACKSON: Yes, I am. My name is 23 John -- 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please identify yourself.
17 1 State your name and address. And if you are 2 not an attorney please be sworn in by our 3 secretary. 4 MR. JACKSON: Okay. My name is John 5 Jackson. I am with McKenna Associates. Our 6 office is in Northville, Michigan. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to 8 tell the truth regarding Case 06-095? 9 MR. JACKSON: I do. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir. 11 MR. JACKSON: Thank you very much. We are 12 here tonight to talk a little bit about this 13 very existing project on Main Street. As 14 you know the project has been through the 15 site planning review process and received a 16 recommendation for approval from the City 17 Council subject to receiving two variances. 18 These variances pertain to the first phase 19 of the project only and that is the office 20 building that is on the corner of Main 21 Street and Novi Road. 22 The two variances, the first 23 variance has to do with the required loading 24 area. According to the City's ordinances
18 1 the amount of loading is based on the length 2 of the building. According to the formula 3 we would be required to provide over 4 2,300 square feet of loading area which 5 equates to about four or five loading areas 6 -- loading spaces. 7 The fact of the matter is this 8 building is geared primarily to office, 9 medical office in particular, there is a 10 little bit of specialty retail on the first 11 floor. But there is simply not a need for 12 that many loading spaces. So we are 13 proposing a single loading space of 14 approximately 525 square feet. So with that 15 we are asking, and, again, an office use 16 will not have large vehicles. The trucks 17 will be primarily, you know, office supply 18 type trucks and things of a smaller nature. 19 So we don't feel the square footage that is 20 required by the Ordinance is necessary to 21 support the uses that we are proposing in 22 that building. 23 The second variance being 24 requested is along Novi Road. As you know,
19 1 the Main Street project itself doesn't have 2 a lot of exposure to Novi or Grand River. 3 This is one area of the project that has a 4 lot of exposure and we want to try to take 5 advantage of that by bringing the buildings 6 closer to the street. Essentially we are 7 asking for a ten-foot variance along Novi 8 Road. I will put a detail up here so they 9 can see. Do I need to hit something or is 10 it going to just magically appear? Great. 11 12 This is Novi Road along the top 13 of the drawing. This is the parking located 14 in front. There is a requirement for 15 20 feet between the parking and the 16 right-of-way. There are areas in here that 17 are less than that. There are some areas 18 that are more than that. But by in large 19 it's about a 10 feet setback between the 20 right-of-way and the parking. 21 And what we are doing to sort of 22 offset that is we are providing a 23 significant amount of landscaping and a 24 decorative wall. You can kind of see right
20 1 here the knee wall or the screen wall that 2 we are going to provide along that frontage 3 to help create the visual buffer. But we 4 wanted the reduction in order, again, to 5 increase the presence of the building on 6 Novi Road and to sort of begin to introduce 7 that urban fabric that we have along Main 8 Street out on Novi Road and, again, improve 9 the visibility there. 10 So with that we would ask your 11 consideration favorable hopefully for these 12 two relatively minor variances concerning 13 the overall scale of the project. So with 14 that I would be happy to answer any 15 questions. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 17 MR. JACKSON: You are welcome. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Does anybody in the 19 audience (unintelligible) or comment about 20 this particular case? 21 Seeing none, I will inform the Board that 82 22 notices were mailed, one approval, zero 23 objections. 24 Building Department, any
21 1 comments? 2 MR. SAVEN: Just to point out that the 3 Planning Department had drafted a letter in 4 regards to their review with a favorable 5 recommendation on August 10th -- excuse me, 6 August 10th, 2006 letter regarding the 7 loading space. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 I would open it to the Board for discussion. 10 Yes, Mr. Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: The sidewalk will be between 12 that small brick wall and the street? 13 MR. JACKSON: That's right. The sidewalk is 14 within the right-of-way so the sidewalk 15 really isn't impacted by the setback 16 variances being requested. 17 MEMBER BAUER: You would have people walking 18 on that? 19 MR. JACKSON: Yes, they will be walking, the 20 wall will be on one side of them and then 21 the street will be on the other side. 22 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 24 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. A
22 1 point of clarification. I want to address 2 to the City or Counsel. I just want to make 3 sure that we have control over TC-1 area in 4 particular since Council extensively 5 reviewed the preliminary site plan and we 6 gave it its blessing. We still do have 7 control over -- 8 MR. SAVEN: It's still an Ordinance 9 violation. 10 MEMBER SHROYER: I wanted to make sure of 11 that. That it wasn't (unintelligible) or 12 whatever. So, I wanted to make sure of that. 13 Mr. Jackson, the concerns I have, 14 and it's not going to be a make or break for 15 me at this point. But I want to hear 16 comments from my fellow Board members. The 17 ten dollars -- the ten-foot setback is a 18 concern. Part of the reason is it does 19 prevent any future widening of the street. 20 I do realize that that portion is already a 21 five lane road. 22 MR. JACKSON: Um-hum. 23 MEMBER SHROYER: And as we increase the 24 width of the road going all the way to 10
23 1 Mile Road it will be consistent. So that's 2 part of the reason I say it's not a make or 3 break type thing, but it is a certain. And 4 I don't know if that was bantered around or 5 discussed very much at your level. If it 6 was, can you please share that information 7 with us. 8 MR. JACKSON: Well, Dave Milanan here might 9 be able to comment on any specific 10 conversations, but, again, the setback is 11 from the existing right-of-way. So if there 12 is any road widening that had to occur in 13 the existing right-of-way, then that 14 obviously could be accommodated. If the 15 right-of-way had to be expanded, more than 16 likely we would lose a row of parking in the 17 front and then parking would have to be 18 picked up someplace on site. So the 19 setback -- 20 MEMBER SHROYER: That leads me into the -- 21 is it a three story parking garage that is 22 going to be behind it? I believe it's still 23 part of phrase one? 24 MR. JACKSON: Yeah.
24 1 MEMBER SHROYER: Four hundred plus parking 2 spaces that would offset the loss of the 3 potential road in front if we had to do it 4 and move the site on the other side of the 5 U-haul or whatever. 6 MR. JACKSON: If we lost any parking we 7 would be in a deficit according to the 8 City's -- 9 MEMBER SHROYER: Overall plan. 10 MR. JACKSON: Right, the City's standards 11 and the plan. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. The secondary of 13 course is the extreme reduction of the 14 loading area which basically limits or 15 severely limits actually any other use of 16 the building. I understand the zone retail 17 and office and what have you, and did I hear 18 you correctly when you said that retail 19 would be on the main level and offices on 20 the top three? 21 MR. JACKSON: That's right. And the retail 22 that's is limited, it's primarily catering 23 to the medical oriented offices, you know, 24 medical related supplies and things of that
25 1 nature, walkers and other. It may have some 2 restaurants on the first floor, a gift shop. 3 MEMBER SHROYER: And there is adequate 4 parking for a restaurant? 5 MR. JACKSON: Yes, all the uses have been 6 laid out according to the shared parking 7 provisions and reviewed repeatedly. 8 MEMBER SHROYER: I'm not concerned about the 9 loading area for the medical and the office 10 because that's just supplies periodically. 11 MR. JACKSON: Right. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: If you get a retail store 13 that has a lot of merchandize coming and 14 going constantly there is a lot of 15 restocking and the size of the truck may 16 vary, etcetera, etcetera. 17 One of the other concerns I have 18 is that even though medical facilities are 19 great in the buildings. As you know there 20 are a lot of medical buildings currently in 21 Novi and now with the large complex that's 22 going to be Providence. You are confident 23 that you are going to be able to bring some 24 business into that facility?
26 1 MR. JACKSON: Again, that's a question for 2 Mr. Milanan. 3 MR. MILANAN: My name is David Milanan I'm 4 with the Triangle Main Street and 5 Development. Do I need to? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Be sworn in. Thank you. 7 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear or 8 affirm to tell the truth regarding case: 9 06-095? 10 MR. MILANAN: I do. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 12 MR. MILANAN: Thank you. Again, my name is 13 Dave Milanan I'm with Triangle Development 14 which is developing the Main Street project. 15 The medical building is going to be the 16 first phase and, in fact, we have a user for 17 that and it's a group of doctors from 18 Beaumont Hospital. So Beaumont Hospital is 19 going to have their name on it and they are 20 very excited about the project, so... 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Great. 22 MR. MILANAN: It's not a speculative 23 building for us. But we do have users and, 24 in fact, I think it's going very well as I
27 1 understand. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: Now, I have read as part of 3 phrase one the building structure to be 4 built as well you are aware in the 5 presentation mentioned that this medical 6 building or office building would be built 7 first. So it's not going to be together? 8 MR. MILANAN: The medical building is going 9 to be built at the same time we are building 10 the parking deck and there is a very good 11 possibility that the building in front of 12 the parking deck is also going to go to be 13 built. We are negotiating with a user who 14 might take that building and then that comes 15 about then we will move ahead. So some 16 good things are happening. 17 MEMBER SHROYER: And did you plan any sky 18 walks between the buildings or anything 19 along that line to allow perhaps -- 20 MR. MILANAN: We asked the medical building 21 people if they wanted a sky walk between the 22 medical building and parking deck. They 23 chose not to have one. We are still 24 considering the possibility of having a sky
28 1 walk between the parking deck and the other 2 building fronting on Main Street. 3 MEMBER SHROYER: Part of the reason I was 4 asking about that is our handicap community 5 I note that all your handicap parking is 6 right in front of the building on the main 7 level, but if your medical up on the second, 8 third, fourth levels if they could park out 9 of inclimate weather in the parking garage 10 and use the walkway to get across or wheel 11 way, you might say, if you use a wheelchair, 12 but that's up for you guys to decide. I was 13 just curious. 14 MR. MILANAN: Well, as I indicated, we gave 15 them that option. We are really not 16 developing it. It's a group of doctors and 17 they have their own architect, but it's 18 being done in conjunction with the overall 19 project. 20 MEMBER SHROYER: Very good. I do want to 21 hear comments from the rest of the Board 22 members in particular about the concerns I 23 have. At this point I am not opposed to 24 anything that is being recommended, but I do
29 1 want to hear comments. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Shroyer. 3 Anybody else? Mr. Gatt? 4 MEMBER GATT: I have no problem with the 5 loading space variance that you guys are 6 requesting. I think that the facility as 7 it's going to be used that's really not 8 going to become an issue, a major issue at 9 least. I was a little hesitant about the 10 ten-foot variance until you guys described 11 the wall that was going to be put there. 12 Really the big thing I was thinking if there 13 is a major accident right there they are 14 going to run into people in your parking 15 lot, but that wall and the look, the overall 16 look I think the safety concern and the 17 overall look will look very nice. I don't 18 really find myself concerned with the road 19 expanding to a seven lane road any time in 20 the extremely near future. 21 So I have no problem with either 22 of these variances now that we have gotten 23 to discuss this with you guys. So I am 24 prepared to vote yes for both of these.
30 1 Thank you. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I just have one 3 question for the Building Department or 4 somebody to enlighten me. Where is this new 5 overpass over the railroad crossing on Novi 6 Road going to end up on the north side? 7 MR. SAVEN: That I couldn't tell you. I 8 still think it's in the planning stage right 9 now. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: It's still in the planning 11 stage so you don't know what kind of impact 12 that could have on (unintelligible). 13 MR. SAVEN: I don't believe it's going to 14 have an impact strictly because of the fact 15 is the elevation at the railroad track 16 versus what the overpass is going to be 17 like, the height of the overpass there is 18 plenty enough road to make it work. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. Thank you. 20 Yes, Mr. Fischer? 21 MEMBER FISCHER: You caught me in between a 22 drink there. I promise it's water. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yeah. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: I appreciate the comments.
31 1 I enjoy having someone who has been on the 2 Planning Commission on the Zoning Board 3 because I think you bring a lot of great 4 points, so I appreciate your comments, Mr. 5 Shroyer. Thank you very much for those. 6 I especially appreciate the 7 concerns regarding the ten-foot setback from 8 Novi Road, but I believe that those have 9 been met. I was quite concerned about the 10 expansion too not so much that we might go 11 to seven or nine or eleven lanes, but even 12 the possibility of putting some type of 13 island in there or something. But it seems 14 as though we would have some type of relief 15 should that ever become necessary. 16 As far as the loading, I agree as 17 far as that Ordinance goes. I read 18 somewhere in our packet that that might be 19 being looked at currently anyway. Can you -- 20 MR. SAVEN: I believe so. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Can you provide any more 22 than that? 23 MR. SAVEN: No comment where it's at right 24 now.
32 1 MEMBER FISCHER: No comment on where it's 2 at? 3 MR. SAVEN: That's correct. 4 MEMBER FISCHER: But it might be being 5 looked at? 6 MR. SAVEN: I know that it is, yes. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: So obviously 8 somewhere in the City it appears that we 9 need to look at that Ordinance and review 10 it. So my comments would be supporting both 11 Mr. Gatt and Mr. Shroyer. Thank you, Mr. 12 Chair. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Fischer. 14 Yes? 15 MR. SAVEN: With everybody being free of 16 their comment I do have a comment. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go ahead, please. 18 MR. SAVEN: I would prefer all the rest of 19 the Board members speak first. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think (unintelligible). 21 MR. SAVEN: Okay. Mr. Chairman, Board, I 22 would like to just bring to your attention 23 two issues here. Number one, please take 24 into consideration the magnitude of this
33 1 project. This is something that is not just 2 going to be one building, but it's going to 3 be many buildings as part of the site plan 4 is concerned. There is a provision in the 5 Ordinance that talks about a building permit 6 is to be taken within 90 days of the 7 approval process and even after final site 8 plan approval or 30 days after final site 9 plan approval. But based upon the magnitude 10 of the project and taking a look at the 11 projection, whatever, I would request that 12 should the Board decide to approve this 13 variance, that they add at least a one year 14 extension to that particular provision so 15 that we are not going to be bouncing back 16 and forth here for the whole entire project 17 as we are going through the project. 18 And second, there was a letter 19 that was drafted by the one of the previous 20 owners of Novi Auto Parts and Dan's Auto 21 Repair and Tommy's Tire which was part of 22 your packet talking about the concern of the 23 drainage which is going in that particular 24 direction. I would ask that the Board just
34 1 have the applicant look into this matter and 2 please get with the people or whatever 3 regarding what they plan on doing for that 4 particular issue. 5 It has been a concern in that 6 area for a while. So it's part of a 7 planning process I'm sure in engineering, 8 but just to be sure that that is the concern 9 and it should be addressed. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Saven. 11 MEMBER BAUER: Does the applicant have a 12 copy of this? 13 MR. SAVEN: I believe the applicant does 14 have a copy of that. 15 MR. MILANAN: In this particular letter I 16 haven't seen but we were familiar with some 17 of the concerns about a drainage. 18 MR. SAVEN: That is correct. 19 MEMBER BAUER: You can keep this copy. 20 MR. MILANAN: Thank you. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, (unintelligible). 22 And if there is no further discussion, the 23 Chair will entertain a Motion. 24 Yes, Mr. Fischer?
35 1 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 2 would move that the Board approve the 3 requests in Case Number: 06-095 filed by 4 Triangle Main Street, LLC, for Novi Main 5 Street located at Novi and Grand River, near 6 Novi and Grand River. Given the fact that 7 the Petitioner has established the elements 8 of practical difficulty. That this request 9 is not based on circumstances generally in 10 the area, but it is unique to the property. 11 That the failure to grant will unreasonably 12 prevent or limit the use of the property. 13 And that the grant of relief will not result 14 in a use or structure that is incompatible 15 with or unreasonable or interferes with 16 adjacent or surrounding properties. 17 I would also like to note as part 18 of my Motion that part of the plan review of 19 the prelaminarly site plan from August 10th, 20 2006 states that the Planning Department is 21 in support of the requests. 22 And I would also find that the Petitioner 23 has established that there will be limited 24 retail which ties into the fact of the lower
36 1 proposed loading space. The fact that Novi 2 Road is already expanded to five lanes. 3 And, lastly, that these variances are 4 consistent with the site plan for the 5 development and also with that of the master 6 plan for the City of Novi. 7 Lastly, I would request that the 8 Petitioner address the concerns in the note 9 to the Zoning Board of Appeals and get with 10 that person who had some concerns. 11 12 And lastly, I would allow for this variance, 13 a permit to be pulled through July 31st, 14 2008. 15 MR. SAVEN: For the extension of the 16 approval? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Extension of the approval 18 July 31st, 2008. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has 21 been made and seconded. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Did Mr. Bauer 23 second? 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes.
37 1 ROBIN WORKING: Thank you. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Did you want me 3 to repeat that or? 4 ROBIN WORKING: No, I got it. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: If there is no further 6 discussion, Ms. Working, please call the 7 roll. 8 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 11 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 13 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 17 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Congratulations. 22 MR. JACKSON: Thank you very much. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: God speed and good luck. 24 MR. JACKSON: Thank you.
38 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Moving on. The next case 2 is number: 06-096 filed by Phil Venables of 3 Accent Signs for Ellison Technologies 4 located at 29050 Cabot. Will you please 5 identify yourself and -- 6 MR. VENABLES: My name is Phil Venables. I'm 7 with Accent Signs, again, on behalf of 8 Ellison Technologies. As you got the plans 9 I think and you've seen pictures of the 10 building. We put a markup on the building 11 for you all to see. I hope you had an 12 opportunity to take a look at it. Showing 13 the position of the sign -- 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Excuse me. Are you an 15 attorney? 16 MR. VENABLES: No, I'm not. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Would you 18 please be sworn in by our secretary. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to 20 tell the truth regarding case: 06-096? 21 MR. VENABLES: I do. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Go ahead. 23 MR. VENABLES: As I was saying, the 24 situation is such the building is situated
39 1 on a graduated curb, it's not a smooth curb 2 or a grade (unintelligible) curb. And 3 pardon me if I am a little out of it today, 4 I am drugged up on cold medicines, my head 5 is not too sharp today. So the building as 6 I said is on a curb and this building is 7 occupied by two tenants. The tenant is 8 concerned, Ellison tenant is concerned that 9 as the traffic is approaching the facility 10 because there is this periods of the day 11 where the traffic is significant in front of 12 the building, there is concern that there 13 may be stuck with traffic incidents if they 14 are not visible from the street the building 15 does sit back a significant distance from 16 the road. 17 That's the one of their biggest 18 concerns. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Thank you. Is 20 there anybody in the audience who would like 21 to address the Board regarding this case? 22 Seeing none, Building Department? Mr. 23 Amolsch? 24 MR. AMOLSCH: Just for Board clarification
40 1 the issue here is that the applicant is 2 asking for a second sign on a building that 3 only have one entrance. Multi tenant 4 buildings are allowed a sign for each tenant 5 if they have a direct separate entrance. 6 What they are asking for is they can either 7 share a 65 square feet sign for the building 8 or just have the one sign. So what they are 9 asking for is a variance to that, not having 10 a direct separate entrance. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. We had sent, 90 12 notices were mailed, zero approvals, zero 13 objections. 14 Okay, opening to the Board? Yes, 15 Mr. Bauer? 16 MEMBER BAUER: Al, have they already right 17 now exceeded the square footage necessary? 18 MR. AMOLSCH: The sign they currently have 19 on the building is 40 square feet. 20 MEMBER BAUER: Okay, thank you. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Ms. Krieger? 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: I noticed that the Ellison 23 sign was more difficult to see than the Mori 24 Seiki -- if I said that correctly -- sign,
41 1 and was the intention just for the Mori 2 Seiki or to also have the Ellison there 3 coming to one drive? 4 MR. VENABLES: No, the markup is sized in 5 accordance not to exceed the -- does it say 6 any square feet on it? The total that you 7 would normally allow for it with multiple 8 entrances, made sure that that sign did not 9 exceed that total. So we didn't want to 10 encroach on that as well. It's white on 11 white which makes it certainly difficult. 12 When the colors are introduced to the sign, 13 they're not white, but when the colors are 14 introduced to the sign then it would be more 15 visible. 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: Okay, thank you. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 18 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. 19 Mr. Amolsch, I see a citation was 20 issued. What was that for? 21 MR. AMOLSCH: A citation? 22 MEMBER SHROYER: According to the 23 information we received, item six is your 24 appeal case notice for violation of --
42 1 MR. AMOLSCH: There is no violation. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: There is no violation? 3 MR. AMOLSCH: They applied for a permit 4 application and they were denied based on 5 the Ordinance. There was no violation. 6 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay. A lot of them we see 7 that shows denied and are checked no in that 8 box. So I thought perhaps this was 9 separate. 10 MR. AMOLSCH: No. 11 MEMBER SHROYER: Okay, Thank you. And to 12 the applicant, when you wrote the appeal it 13 says the appeal is based upon the following 14 grounds. Please attach second page 15 necessary. The building is setback a great 16 distance from the road and is on a gradual 17 curb. The building is shared approximately 18 half and half by two companies. The 19 building was designed aesthetically with 20 only one entrance, however, and then you say 21 certain periods of the day high -- 22 MR. VENABLES: I was discussing the traffic 23 issues and I, somehow that managed to miss 24 the rest of the application. I apologize
43 1 for that. It was regarding the traffic at 2 certain times of the day does get fairly 3 high and that's the issue that they are 4 concerned about. There are visitors to and 5 from the building even during those peak 6 periods and those are the times that they 7 are afraid of accidents and so forth and 8 safety issues that occur, that could occur, 9 you know, like passing and missing the thing 10 and trying to stop in the middle of the road 11 and that sort of thing. 12 MEMBER SHROYER: Missing the area would be 13 something like high volume traffic? 14 MR. VENABLES: That's correct. I apologize 15 for that. 16 MEMBER SHROYER: No, problem. I just wanted 17 to get clarification on it. And how did we 18 come to the point where there are two 19 tenants in the building when it was built 20 with one entrance, was it originally for one 21 tenant and it couldn't be -- the one 22 tenant -- you didn't get a tenant large 23 enough -- 24 MR. VENABLES: I would have to assume that
44 1 was the case. I would have to consult with 2 the builder, but that probably would be 3 logical to be the case. Right now it works 4 out very well as a two tenant unit, I can't 5 imagine how they would ever get anybody else 6 in there. It's just configured nicely for 7 two. One certainly could have been in there 8 at some point. 9 MEMBER SHROYER: And because of aesthetics 10 there is no anticipation at this time of 11 creating a second entrance? 12 MR. VENABLES: Without doing some 13 significant architectural changes to the 14 building I don't know how you would work 15 effectively to do it. Without taking, you 16 know -- I mean, you get into a question of 17 aesthetics, you want to hack a building up 18 to make it look with an extra entrance just 19 to meet the sign ordinance, I think that's 20 -- 21 MEMBER SHROYER: No, no, no, that wasn't the 22 reason for that. 23 MR. VENABLES: Okay. 24 MEMBER SHROYER: That's all I have, Mr.
45 1 Chair. Thank you. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you very 3 much. 4 Yes, Mr. Gatt? 5 MEMBER GATT: Mr. Amolsch, if you were to 6 take this sign that they are asking for and 7 the sign that's currently existing and you 8 were to put them together into one sign they 9 would be within the Ordinance? 10 MR. AMOLSCH: Possibly, I don't have those 11 figures. The Ordinance allows them to have 12 65 square feet for the building. They can 13 divvy that up whichever way they want to 14 within the square foot parallel. 15 MR. VENABLES: In answer to your question, I 16 purposely designed the Ellison signs to do 17 that so it would not exceed the 65 square 18 feet. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer? 20 MEMBER FISCHER: Have you considered putting 21 the two signs in one? 22 MR. VENABLES: Well, that's always a 23 possibility. Now the situation is you take 24 a building that's extremely lineal and quite
46 1 attractive and do you take the signs, do we 2 jam the two signs over the center entrance 3 or something? And then you have got a mumbo 4 jumbo of two signs stacked on top of each 5 other. Or do you -- that's the problem. 6 You stack them together so all the letters 7 become not readable? 8 Right now it's a pleasant design, 9 the building architecturally certainly. And 10 I think graphically as well if it's done on 11 a balanced basis. It's a question of 12 balance. I don't know that putting them 13 together -- 14 MEMBER FISCHER: It might appear as one 15 business almost too? 16 MR. VENABLES: Well, possibly, yeah. 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Regarding the general 18 characteristics of this area, do we have 19 many buildings in this area that only have 20 one entrance and have two tenants, is that a 21 common theme in that campus? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: There are several different 23 types of buildings in that site or in that 24 area. Some of them are multi tenant with
47 1 separate direct entrances. Many of them are 2 a little larger office buildings. To help 3 the Board in deliberation, the recent sign 4 Ordinance attempted to handle this problem 5 by allowing the second sign on a building 6 with over 40,000 square feet. This building 7 does not meet the 40,000 square foot limit 8 so the Ordinance Review Committee tried to 9 prevent these type of things coming before 10 the Board. So it's (unintelligible) to 11 allow that kind of a second sign, but the 12 building is not qualified square footage 13 wise. 14 MEMBER FISCHER: Where are we at as far as 15 square feet go? 16 MR. VENABLES: I couldn't tell you. 17 MR. AMOLSCH: The number is 9,000 on the 18 building permit. 19 MEMBER FISCHER: We are not sure? 20 MR. SAVEN: No. 21 MR. VENABLES: It's significant. It's not 22 40,000. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: You guys are 24 split 50/50; is that correct?
48 1 MR. VENABLES: That's correct. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: I would be -- I'm very 3 hesitant to support this given the recent 4 review of the Ordinance and that we have 5 looked at this and I don't want to open too 6 many flood gates. But I think a determining 7 factor for me is that it is 50/50. If we 8 were looking at a building here that had 80, 9 75, 90 percent of one tenant and now a 10 tenant that only has 15 percent of the 11 building wants a full second sign I would 12 have a bit of a problem. But given the fact 13 that we have two tenants sharing equally in 14 this building, I think it's almost unfair 15 that one would get a sign and one wouldn't. 16 So, despite the attempt to fix 17 this through the recent Ordinance, I feel 18 that this still is a bit of an inadequacy 19 and I would be willing to support. Thank 20 you, Mr. Chair. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 22 Yes, Mr. Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Do you happen to have the 24 building owner approval?
49 1 MR. VENABLES: Yes, I do. 2 MEMBER BAUER: Do we -- 3 MR. VENABLES: Northern Equities is the -- 4 MEMBER BAUER: Pardon? 5 MR. VENABLES: Northern Equities, Brian 6 Hughes is the -- 7 MEMBER BAUER: We should have a copy of 8 that. 9 MR. VENABLES: We'll get that for you. 10 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: You should make that part 12 of the Motion. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. I just wanted to make 14 my own comments for the record. This is a 15 long lineal building with north wing and a 16 south wing with two separate businesses even 17 though they have a single entrance for 18 aesthetic reasons and I don't see any reason 19 why they can't have a second sign on the 20 wall for the second business being such a 21 large building as it is. So I have no 22 hesitation myself personally in supporting 23 this application. Thank you. 24 Yes, Mr. Shroyer?
50 1 MEMBER SHROYER: Since the Chairman supports 2 it I will make a Motion. In case number: 3 06-096 filed by Phil Venables. 4 MR. VENABLES: Close. 5 MEMBER SHROYER: Of Accent Signs for Ellison 6 Technologies located at 29050 Cabot, I move 7 to approve the request for variance to allow 8 an additional 24.98 square foot maximum wall 9 sign due to the fact that the sign meets the 10 (unintelligible) size of the building in the 11 zone that has multiple entrances. In other 12 words, the 65 square foot combination of the 13 two signs. 14 And B, that was A. B, the 15 building is shared equally by two 16 individuals in separate companies that need 17 to be identified. And by that I want to 18 state that if the tenants change and there 19 is a different percentage, it needs to come 20 back to the Board for re-review. 21 Let's see here, and, C, the ZBA does have 22 the authority to grant variance relief based 23 upon the following affirmative findings, 24 practical difficulty that apply in this
51 1 instance. One, failure to grant relief will 2 unreasonably limit the use of the property 3 and will result in substantially more than a 4 mere inconvenience and ability to attain a 5 higher financial return. 6 And, two, that the grant of the relief will 7 not result in a use or structure that is 8 incompatible with or unreasonably interferes 9 with adjacent or surrounding properties, 10 will result in substantial justice being 11 done to both the applicant or adjacent or 12 surrounding properties is not inconsistent 13 with the spirt or the intent of the Zoning 14 Ordinances, provided that written approval 15 is obtained from the owner and provided to 16 the City prior to the final approval. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: Second. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Motion has been 19 made and seconded. 20 Any further discussions? Seeing 21 none. Yes, Mr. Amolsch? 22 MR. AMOLSCH: Before I mentioned something 23 about square footage aiming for a future 24 tenant, are you limiting this variance to
52 1 this Petitioner only then? 2 MR. VENABLES: Yes, sir. 3 MR. AMOLSCH: Thank you. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Ms. Working, 5 will you please call the roll. 6 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 7 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 8 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 9 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 10 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 12 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 13 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 14 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 15 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 17 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. (Unintelligible) 20 MR. VENABLES: Thank you. We will get 21 approval for you right away. Thank you very 22 much. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Case number -- 24 Next case, Case number: 06-097 filed by Joe
53 1 Bennett of ITC Holdings for ITC 2 Transmissions Corporate Headquarters. 3 Are you, Mr. Bennett? Yes, I am Joe 4 Bennett. I am an employee of ITC Holdings 5 located at 39500 Orchard Mill Place, Suite 6 200 in Novi. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Will you be 8 sworn in by our secretary, please. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Do you swear or affirm to 10 tell the truth regarding Case: 06-097? 11 MR. BENNETT: I do. 12 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please make your 14 presentation. 15 MR. BENNETT: ITC is proposing a new 16 headquarters at a site we currently own. We 17 have our Quaker substation site there. It's 18 between Haggerty which is down here and 12 19 Mile Road here, and it's off the M-5 20 corridor. 21 I would just like to give you a 22 little background on ITC and the reasons for 23 this project. And then I will turn it over 24 to our civil engineer, Jim Butler, from TEA
54 1 to go over the details of the variances that 2 we are asking for. 3 ITC is a rapidly expanding electric utility 4 and we have quickly outgrown our current 5 facilities at Orchard Hill Place. Partly 6 due to the recent acquisition of a 7 transmission company, Michigan Electric 8 Transmission Company on the west side of the 9 state. 10 With that acquisition we now own 11 and operate all of the, pretty much all of 12 the transmission system in the lower part of 13 Michigan. And the high voltage transmission 14 system that we operate is large transmission 15 wires and large substations that basically 16 move bulk power across the system. The 17 Consumers Energy and Detroit Edisons are 18 still in place and they are still the 19 companies that actually generate the power 20 and serve the customers. We are kind of the 21 middle man between the generation and the 22 distribution, so we kind of help move large 23 quantities of power. 24 One of our substations is
55 1 actually on this site, the Quaker 2 substation. We have a number of substations 3 throughout Michigan and a lot of the 4 transmission lines as I said that you see on 5 the towers, metal towers are ours. 6 With our recent growth we have 7 been forced to move a number of our 8 employees out of Novi because of the, just 9 our rapid expansion. Just to give you an 10 idea of how quickly we have grown, in less 11 than four years our company started four 12 years ago with 38 employees and we are now 13 up to about 300 employees and contractors 14 and we don't anticipate that growth changing 15 any time soon which is part of the reason we 16 are actually looking at building a second 17 building down the road. So for efficiency 18 and cohesiveness our CEO has made it clear 19 that he wants all the employees in one 20 location. And that location is Novi. 21 We are also looking at building a command 22 center which would actually be attached to 23 the back of the office building. This 24 building will house our 24-hour, seven day a
56 1 week operation where we basically manage the 2 transmission grid, do the switching and 3 tagging and make sure the system stays up 4 and running so there is no blackouts in the 5 system. It's a very critical building to our 6 business. 7 We currently have about 200 8 employees here in Novi and when we have this 9 building complete we plan to immediately 10 bring another 100 in here. The building is 11 going to be designed for 450, the first 12 building, so we will have a lot of potential 13 to grow and we actually expect that we will 14 probably be well over the 300 by the time we 15 move in hopefully in about a year and a half 16 if all goes well. 17 We will be bringing engineers 18 that design and maintain the transmission 19 assets. The operation group as I indicated 20 monitors the transmission system and then a 21 lot of the corporate support functions, 22 legal, finance and what have you. 23 So, I just want to say it's been 24 great being here in Novi for the last couple
57 1 of years and we hope to maintain a good 2 relation with the City of Novi and stay here 3 for many years to come. 4 So, with that I guess I will just turn it 5 over to Jim who will walk through the five 6 variances that we are looking for your 7 approval on. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 MR. BUTLER: Good evening. My name is Jim 10 Butler with Professional Engineering. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you be sworn in? 12 Thank you. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Do you solemnly swear or 14 affirm to tell the truth regarding case: 15 06-097? 16 MR. BUTLER: Yes. 17 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please go ahead. 19 MR. BUTLER: As Joe has pointed out this is 20 an 83 acre site located along M-5, Novi 21 Road, Haggerty Road and 96. It comprises 22 three parcels that will be combined as a 23 part of this. Joe had also mentioned that 24 there is an existing substation on the site
58 1 here. It is accessed currently from 2 Haggerty Road. There is a paved access. 3 The site plan is for two 4 buildings, two six story office towers in 5 these locations. This is building one, this 6 is building two. There are two parking 7 decks. This will be parking deck number 8 one. And this will be parking deck number 9 two. 10 The site will access from 12 Mile 11 Road along the serpentine drive to the 12 parking deck. The first office tower is a 13 six story building and in accordance with 14 the City's Ordinance we are required to have 15 a setback of approximately 188 feet in this 16 direction. Currently we have 77 feet, so we 17 are asking for a variance of 111 feet and 18 that's from this corner right here. 19 It should be noted that the Novi 20 Research Building, the proximity of that 21 building from here to that first office 22 tower is approximately 500 feet. So we 23 don't feel that this setback variance 24 request will be detrimental to the adjacent
59 1 building since it is 500 feet away. 2 The second request is for a guard 3 shack. Due to the nature of the business 4 that ITC does it's very sensitive high 5 security stuff. So we do have a guard shack 6 located in this location. People will enter 7 and exit the site from it, from 12 Mile 8 Road. In accordance with the Ordinance it's 9 an accessory building. It is located in the 10 front yard, and given the fact there are 11 many front yards, it's kind of difficult to 12 not have a variance for this accessory 13 building. 14 The third request is for the 15 dumpster. The dumpster is located in this 16 area right here. It is, again, in a side 17 yard setback. I should be noted that that 18 dumpster and its relationship to the 19 existing Novi Research Park Building is 20 approximately 400 feet. 21 The fourth request is actually two requests 22 wrapped in one. The Novi standards for a 23 major road. This is noted and defined as a 24 major road in accordance with the Ordinance.
60 1 The road will only service ITC employees, 2 visitors. We are proposing to have parking 3 along this road in a couple of locations, 4 and also there is a driveway here and here 5 that is less than the standard of 100 feet. 6 Given the fact that it is just for the 7 purposes of ITC we feel that a variance is 8 warranted for that. 9 And, finally, the last request is 10 for a setback. The driveway in this 11 location right here is approximately 10 feet 12 from the property line. The Ordinance 13 requires it being 20 feet and, again, the 14 distance from there to the adjacent building 15 is about 440 feet. So with that, I close my 16 presentation and if you have any questions I 17 would be happy to answer them. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Is there 19 anybody in the audience who would like to 20 address the Board regarding this case? 21 Please come to the podium, please. 22 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Chair, and if anyone 23 else maybe is going to make comments if they 24 want to kind of line up.
61 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: That may be a good idea. 2 If there is more than one person here who 3 would like to make a comment would you 4 please come join around here. 5 Sir, will you please identify yourself. 6 MR. WHITEGG: My name is Thomas Whitegg. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: And your address? 8 MR. WHITEGG: And my one question that I 9 would like to ask these gentleman here, as 10 we noted we got the wetlands there -- did I 11 do that? We have the wetlands, you are not 12 going to destroy these wetlands are you? 13 Please tell me that you are not? 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: At this point you have a 15 question? 16 MR. BUTLER: Yes, this 83 acre site contains 17 a variety and sizable wetlands. The biggest 18 ones being up here on 12 Mile Road and also 19 in this location. There are other pockets 20 throughout the site. We do have an 21 application with the Michigan Department of 22 Environmental Quality to fill in 23 approximately a half an acre of wetlands. 24 There are some small pockets here, here,
62 1 here. And obviously to get an access into 2 the site off of 12 Mile we have to do some 3 building. We will be mitigating for those 4 areas and the mitigation area will be in 5 here. 6 MR. WHITEGG: Now as far as the one lake, 7 the lake that is along the M-5, 12 Mile exit 8 right there, you are not going to be 9 destroying that area, are you? 10 MR. BUTLER: No, we are not going to be 11 destroying that. Our storm water will be 12 treated in pretreatment basins and 13 discharged into that lake. 14 MR. WHITEGG: Because I actually, I live 15 right by the woods there, right by that area 16 and my main concern is destroying the 17 woodland and the wetlands and so forth. But 18 from what I am seeing here it's gonna be 19 actually not right on top of us. 20 MR. BUTLER: No, we will not -- 21 MR. WHITEGG: My concern is actually with 22 the wetland. I love the wetlands, you know. 23 This is one of the things we do here in 24 Novi, we preserve the wetlands.
63 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir. 2 MR. WHITEGG: Okay, thank you. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Anybody else? Please come 4 along, identify yourself, your name and 5 address. 6 MR. BURNETT: My name is James Burnett. I 7 have lived in Novi since '73. I'm also 8 concerned that the wetlands to this, which 9 when the road comes through and throws in 10 their drain pipes, their electric pipes, 11 their gas pipes they're going to dig through 12 ground which will actually affect all of 13 this wetlands. The pond is at one time 14 could be considered almost a lake. It's a 15 good size, 10 acre or more. The woodlands 16 are going to be destroyed. Five hundred 17 trees they are going to take down and not 18 counting the smaller trees which they are 19 going to just plow under. This pond really 20 isn't big enough for what they want to do 21 and they are showing you this by asking for 22 these variances. 23 To put a guard shack in the front 24 which is just open for other businesses
64 1 which it says here, in no way will you put 2 in guard shacks in buildings in the front 3 yard, they want that. They want their 4 variances. They should be checked out more 5 by the fire department because they were 6 built for, these Ordinances were built for 7 safety. Now to move your dumpster and to 8 move your -- having parking in certain 9 areas, that's going to impede the fire 10 department doing their duties in which they 11 try to come if ever they have to help these 12 buildings or something. 13 But the land itself to me is something that 14 should be preserved in this community. We 15 have a lot of areas that have been 16 designated for building on the west side of 17 M-5 all the way down to Meadowbrook it's 18 ready. From 12 Mile to 14 it's ready. But 19 this property here is virgin land. It's all 20 wetlands. Right now it's being approached 21 on the other side of Ruby Tuesday with a new 22 piece of property which is approaching the 23 wetlands. They are building it up about 24 eight feet. And what they are going to do
65 1 to the wetlands is unknown. 2 The wetlands run all through that 3 area. This here to me once they start 4 cutting into the grounds and bringing in 5 their gas lines and sewer lines you can't 6 replace this with a million dollars even 7 though this is a million dollar project, you 8 cannot replace this with the money they want 9 to put in here. This is something that 10 can't be replaced with money. 11 So even though they want to build 12 their building there, we have land in Novi, 13 it can acquire them. But this piece needs 14 to be preserved by Novi. That's my 15 statement. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you, sir. 17 MS. LOT: My name is Barbara Lot. I reside 18 at Country Cousins Village. Did you want me 19 to swear an oath? 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Go ahead. 21 MS. LOT: I am concerned with the fact that 22 the proposed plan abuts right up against the 23 lot line as near as I can figure it of our 24 mobile home park. I am wondering what
66 1 effect -- in fact, I live in the back corner 2 there, where I'm wondering whether or not 3 the proposed, let's see, that would be the 4 south border on the diagram. I think that's 5 going to come right up against the park. 6 And I wonder if there is a buffer zone 7 allowed there? Or what will be allowed 8 there? Will there be a fence? I don't see 9 that in the plans. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please, go ahead. 11 MS. LOT: I can't see that. 12 MR. BUTLER: Thank you. These are the 13 buildings we are proposing. This is the 14 (unintelligible) substation. 15 MS. LOT: The electric will be by Twelve 16 Oaks? 17 MR. BUTLER: Yes, this is the power station 18 right there. This is the mobile home park. 19 This is approximately 670 feet. 20 MS. LOT: Okay. Oh, so it is -- 21 MR. BUTLER: This is Haggerty Road. 22 MS. LOT: Okay. Is this coming -- what is 23 this? 24 MR. BUTLER: We're leaving this as
67 1 untouched. The only area we are building on 2 is here. 3 MS. LOT: Okay, I'm satisfied. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 5 MS. LOT: Thank you. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Anybody else? 7 MR. SERVIN: My name is Robert Servin. I am 8 residing in Country Cousins also. And 9 actually right there is where I reside. And 10 where they are doing everything, what I am 11 worried about is like my roommate Thomas 12 said, the wild life. In the mornings we see 13 deer walking through there. What's going to 14 happen to all the wildlife and the 15 (unintelligible) pads that you plan on 16 putting in that was in the proposal. And 17 the backfilling that they are already doing 18 in one of the wetlands which is, this is the 19 substation, they are already starting to 20 backfill right in this area. I hear them at 21 7:00 in the morning dumping. And I am just 22 wondering are we going to hear that or are 23 we going to have to put a privacy wall up so 24 we don't hear the road traffic? Are they
68 1 going to destroy all the trees and all the 2 wildlife? Where is all the wildlife going 3 to go? 4 They can go across the street to Cabot Drive 5 just north and be one mile away from their 6 substation. Like the other gentleman said, 7 there is plenty of property there that's 8 already been developed. There are buildings 9 already built. Why destroy virgin land? 10 You know, we are already destroying the 11 ozone layer, why not keep some trees and try 12 and keep some oxygen here. That's more or 13 less all I got to say. Thank you. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir. 15 MR. WOOD: My name is Scott Wood, I am also 16 a resident of Country Cousins. 17 Two concerns. First question I 18 have is the current access roads going back 19 to the power station right now, I notice 20 it's been staked out, and my understanding 21 was there was supposed to be no construction 22 in the area. So I guess I am not sure why 23 there would be all these stakes in there? 24 MR. BUTLER: We are currently working with
69 1 the Building Department for a soil erosion 2 and staging permit. And what you are seeing 3 staked out there is a location of a 4 temporary soil erosion control fencing. 5 MR. WOOD: Okay. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 7 MR. WOOD: And the other concern I would 8 have is the location of the dumpster. It's 9 a very large site and the dumpster location 10 is on the east side of the site. And 11 generally the winds are coming from the 12 west. So it's the closest to where the 13 residential area is. So if it could possibly 14 be relocated a little farther away from the 15 residential areas that would be an 16 improvement. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you very 18 much, indeed. 19 Next, just come on up. 20 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Zach Thompson. I 21 am the owner of the property directly across 22 Haggerty Road where the Quaker substation 23 entrance is. I guess I want to take 24 advantage of this opportunity as a matter of
70 1 the record to address a concern that I have 2 that was not addressed by DTE. Now, I am 3 not sure whether I approached the wrong 4 people on this or not. But we have had an 5 ongoing problem with water that's coming up 6 out of the ground from some sort of, you put 7 some sort of holding tank about a year or 8 two ago, and what's happening is that water 9 in the winter is coming up, bubbling up, 10 traveling down the sidewalk and freezing 11 over my parking lot. 12 I didn't get any response out of 13 DTE, maybe it's ITC, but as a matter of 14 record I would like to add that at least 15 something that's addressed and considered as 16 a part of this approval. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 18 Anybody else? I want to thank 19 you all for coming here this evening and 20 stating your concerns. Thank you. 21 Now, Building Department? 22 MR. SAVEN: I think there is a lot of 23 concerns that were certainly generated by 24 the adjacent neighbors in regards to the
71 1 activity that is going to be taking place on 2 this site. And a couple of things I want to 3 point out. For as long as I have been with 4 the City of Novi issues regarding wetlands, 5 protected wetlands and woodlands and State 6 requirements have to be maintained even 7 prior to me issuing a building permit for 8 the site. 9 This is a requirement by the law 10 of Public Act 230. It's very explicit about 11 complying with all State, Federal ordinance 12 requirements. This issue has been so 13 sensitive enough that even in the process of 14 looking at dealing with temporary buildings 15 on the site or temporary trailers on the 16 site where they are going to be placed in 17 regards to the construction of this site, 18 certainly there are issues. Everybody is 19 well aware about the congestion that is 20 presented by the wetlands and woodlands, and 21 in an effort to protect these areas there 22 are certain locations that have to be looked 23 at. And then after the construction of the 24 building that site is reestablished to where
72 1 it was right from the very beginning. 2 One of the things that I think 3 what needs to be brought up is the fact that 4 the access is going to be off 12 Mile Road. 5 And would you mind coming back up to the 6 podium? In regards to the Haggerty Road, 7 the Haggerty Road entrance in terms of 8 access for that particular site once it's 9 completed this is as I understand is going 10 to be for emergency purposes. 11 MR. BUTLER: That is correct. 12 MR. SAVEN: And only for emergency purposes? 13 MR. BUTLER: That is correct. 14 MR. SAVEN: There will be no entrance where 15 we are going to be going by these people's 16 homes after the place has occupancy; is that 17 correct? 18 MR. BUTLER: The only caveat I would put on 19 that, it is an emergency entrance for the 20 building. However, the substation entrance 21 which is currently there we'll maintain -- 22 MR. SAVEN: That's understandable. I'm 23 concerned that these folks here are looking 24 at a high congested area and the 400 and sum
73 1 or the employees that are going there are 2 going to be coming off of Haggerty Road 3 there goes the purpose of the guard shack 4 and entrance off of 12 Mile Road. So that 5 needs to be pointed out. 6 But in terms of the wetlands and the 7 woodlands, all these issues must be approved 8 and we are presently waiting on the approval 9 from MDEQ as it exist right now for the 10 allowance of this to take place would be to 11 issue a temporary permit for trailers which 12 will be along that stretch over here from 13 Haggerty Road for the construction of the 14 site because there is no other place to put 15 the units. 16 So, from that standpoint of view 17 we want to insure that the wetlands is 18 protected. We want to insure that the 19 woodlands is protected and continue in that 20 area. 21 MR. BURNETT: I want to say, are they taking 22 in consideration of the, allowing these 23 roads they are building in and this grass 24 along the front of the building,
74 1 fertilizers, weed killers and bug killers 2 that are going to be brought into these 3 wetlands? That's what they stay away from. 4 That will kill the whole thing right there. 5 Once your fertilizer gets in there to keep 6 your grass nice and green you will have weed 7 killers to keep the weeds out, that's what 8 wetlands belong there. When you start with 9 your bugs around there, which your swamp 10 lands and your marshes give you, you are 11 going to spray bugs in there to help your 12 people at the business so they don't have 13 bugs on them when they go in in the morning. 14 This is going to just destroy the 15 property. There is no way you cannot 16 destroy it by bringing people in there. 17 People are what destroy wetlands. You 18 cannot live together with it. You have to 19 keep your distance from it. And that's what 20 we are asking, keep your distance from it. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Excuse me, sir. You had 22 your chance when you were up here. 23 MR. BURNETT: He asked me. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: We can't have a running
75 1 conversation like that going on. If you 2 would like to make a response will you 3 please come to the podium so that everybody 4 at home also can listen to your 5 conversation. 6 MR. BURNETT: You want me to come up there 7 now? 8 MR. SAVEN: Certainly. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please. This meeting is 10 being televised and people -- 11 MR. BURNETT: I am saying that you are going 12 to introduce insecticides, you are going to 13 introduce fertilizers, you are going to be 14 bringing in weed killers. This is what 15 keeps wetlands dying, that's what kills 16 them. To stay away from them is what people 17 have to do. 18 Right now in this area here in larger 19 electric lines they have gone up in the air. 20 When they cut those trees down they didn't 21 clear the area, they just pushed the trees 22 into the woods. People on the sides of 23 them, the neighbor of ours that has the 24 landscaping business, his back property is
76 1 flooded because they just dropped trees. I 2 have walked back there. There are areas 3 where trees are just dropped into the woods. 4 They are not taking care of this when they 5 do this, but just coming in like humans 6 usually do. We want this, that's it. Never 7 mind the animals, never mind the land around 8 it. Never mind Novi brought in a Wetlands 9 Act, never mind they said they wanted a 10 Woodland Act. We'll just take out 500 trees. 11 Cut down 500 trees. Not talking about the 12 trees that are over three feet tall only to 13 eight feet tall, those are still trees. You 14 are talking over a thousand trees when you 15 think of the trees that are on that land. 16 I have been back there. The 17 ponds you are going to affect, you are going 18 to destroy that pond once the fertilizers 19 get in there it's dead. 20 Like I said, I one time it might 21 have been a small lake, but when the 22 entrance from M-5 came down to 12 Mile they 23 covered part of that pond. I don't know how 24 they got the right to do it, but Novi
77 1 allowed them to do it. Maybe the State 2 allowed it over us. But somehow they have 3 shrunk that pond down. It's still over ten 4 acres. Ten acres is a large pond. Really 5 almost a small lake in some places. So to 6 destroy this is just wrong, it's just 7 completely wrong. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 9 MR. BURNETT: And that's why I'm against 10 whatever they want to do to this property 11 because I have been in Novi for over 12 30 years. I lost my home because of a 13 project that built a subdivision. They 14 flooded my home out and I lost my home. 15 That's why I live where I live in that park 16 because the City allowed the people to come 17 behind me, build a reservoir, flooded me out 18 and then they fought me and I cannot beat 19 nine lawyers, so I lost. I lost my home. My 20 family and I all had to move. So this is 21 where we are. 22 And now I am watching another 23 reckless project come in and want to take 24 over this land. It's not my land, but it
78 1 should belong to the City of Novi as a point 2 of nature. Look at all that we have torn 3 down now. You went over and you built this 4 big center down there, Rock Financial. The 5 wetlands were covered over for Rock 6 Financial's parking lot. They were covered 7 over. Nobody thought of the wetlands. And 8 you can't take it and say I will build it 9 here and I will give you a wetland over 10 there. 11 Down by 13 Mile on Haggerty Road 12 they cleared out a pond, they took and 13 dredged it out and now it looks like a 14 little reservoir, that's not how you clean 15 out a pond. Novi has no way of cleaning up 16 cattails in ponds. They have no way of 17 taking care of that. I don't think you have 18 anybody in here qualified to take care of 19 land, the wetlands. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. All right, sir, your 21 point is well taken. Thank you very much. 22 Thank you. 23 MR. BURNETT: I just like to say one other 24 thing. I came to a meeting on the 13th of
79 1 the December. I spoke of the same thing. 2 The vote was really taken before I got there 3 because ten minutes after I got done talking 4 it was a unanimous decision that they could 5 do what they wanted to do. Our 6 consideration should be taken in because the 7 Mayor tells us this community belongs to the 8 people, not to the investors, to the people. 9 Thank you. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, sir, thank you 11 very much. 12 Anything further from you, Mr. Saven? 13 MR. SAVEN: You know everything. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 15 Moving along. We had sent 386 notices. 16 There were two objections and I believe they 17 are here today. Mr. Secretary, please read 18 the names. 19 MEMBER BAUER: Darlene Alexander. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: She is here. 21 MEMBER BAUER: (Unintelligible). As long as 22 you don't involve Country Cousins, Inc., 23 Section 13, I have no objection. 24 Alan on Old Justin Road.
80 1 Objection. 2 I have one from Stankiewicz is it? I'm 3 sorry, Edward. Approval and objection. I 4 give approval as long as you don't fool with 5 Country Cousins. 6 Marilyn Kilner. As soon as we 7 give more to ITC Company will want more as 8 far as I am concerned. I object to the 9 requested variance. 10 (Unintelligible). 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Thank you. 12 Moving on. I open up the discussion for the 13 Board now. 14 Yes, Ms. Krieger? 15 MEMBER KRIEGER: I have a question regarding 16 the six story office building. I thought 17 from previous council meetings that the 18 office buildings in Novi would be five 19 stories? 20 MR. SAVEN: We're looking at six stories. 21 It was still in approval for six. 22 MEMBER KRIEGER: And then also for the size 23 of the fence for Novi is supposed to be six 24 feet. They can exceed that?
81 1 MR. SAVEN: That, I am not sure of. 2 MEMBER KRIEGER: For residential I 3 understand it's six feet? 4 MR. SAVEN: That's correct. 5 MEMBER KRIEGER: But for office I would 6 question that height. And then I guess if 7 the security nature is so great that they 8 need a guard area, I have concern regarding 9 that. And also every time I come home from 10 work I get off at M-5 and 12 Mile and I see 11 the swans tending the lake, so it's 12 environmental issues I have a concern with 13 also. Thank you. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Anybody else 15 making comments? Yes, Mr. Fischer? 16 MEMBER FISCHER: Sure. First off I want to 17 say that I applaud all of the neighbors and 18 all of the people who came in today to voice 19 their concerns. I am excited when we 20 actually get participation and conversation 21 and dialog going on because so often we go 22 thorough a whole meeting and we don't hear a 23 single objection, approval or anything, so 24 it's exciting to see people actually care
82 1 about what happens to the City of Novi. So 2 thank you all for coming and your objections 3 are well noted. 4 Number two, as much as I lived in 5 this city for my entire life now, 20 sum 6 years. I remember Irwin Farms and before 7 when A & P was A & P and all those certain 8 things. As much as I wish we could take 9 Novi and set it at a certain point in time, 10 I realize that we can't do that. And I 11 realize that what we have to do is use our 12 Ordinance to the affect of making sure that 13 we do preserve and mitigate the woodlands, 14 wetlands and everything as much as we can. 15 So if the City is to go in and not allow any 16 building whatsoever on this property, that's 17 when we get into lawsuits, that's when we 18 get into having to buy this property. And 19 we at this level are certainly not in the 20 position to make any of those types of 21 deals. 22 At this level on the Zoning Board 23 of Appeals we have to stick with the five 24 exact variances that are before us. We
83 1 can't look at the whole site plan. We can't 2 look at all the surroundings factors and the 3 decisions that go on at the Council or 4 Planning Commission level. We have to look 5 at the variances in front of us and the 6 application of the law, the practical 7 difficulty. 8 And in doing that I would on the 9 other side applaud the Petitioner in doing 10 what they did. My first concern when I 11 looked at this is to look for the 12 residential areas that would be affected. 13 And I saw Country Cousins and I'm not sure 14 if there is another village over there that, 15 is it part of Country Cousins or it is all 16 one -- 17 MR. BUTLER: Two sections. 18 MEMBER FISCHER: Two different sections. So 19 I saw both of those on my map that I have 20 and I was encouraged to see that the 21 Petitioner is requesting to build all on the 22 other side of the existing substation. And 23 I believe that was pointed out to the lady 24 who was up here questioning that that she
84 1 lives in the back corner and it appears that 2 all of the development, correct me if I am 3 wrong, is completely on the other side of 4 the Quaker substation? 5 MR. BUTLER: That's correct. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: And While I do note and 7 agree that maybe we could look at a 8 different position for the dumpster, I think 9 that would be a minor thing that we could 10 definitely look at. Besides that, I can 11 agree with these variances because I see 12 them as a way to maximize the amount of 13 wetlands and woodlands that we are 14 preserving. By granting this we actually 15 have saved more than if we did not grant 16 these. And that's why I am in favor of the 17 majority of these petitions given the fact 18 that, you know, it's a very unique piece of 19 property. The size is unique. I think that 20 the Petitioner has done everything to 21 preserve as much wetlands as they can and 22 take into consideration those residential 23 and actually other business neighbors that 24 reside near them.
85 1 I would also ask if we were to 2 talk about any type of Motion, that we do 3 have some followup with the neighbor across 4 the street regarding the water that has been 5 happening recently. But, in general, 6 looking at this, once again I applaud the 7 neighbors and I take into consideration 8 their objections, but given the facility and 9 the site plan and how it's laid out I think 10 that since we have to do something this is 11 the best plan that can be proposed. 12 So, I will start the conversation with that 13 and see where it goes. Thank you, Mr. 14 Chair. 15 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 16 Yes, Mr. Gatt? 17 MEMBER GATT: My comments some what mirror 18 Member Fischer's. I am also a very large 19 proponent of nature and the preservation of 20 nature. I lived in Sault Ste. Marie for 21 quite a while and the tree falls in the 22 woods there came into effect many many times 23 for all the wetlands and forest areas that 24 were up there.
86 1 On the other hand, we live in a city that is 2 in a massive development time period and 3 this particular company, this ITC Holdings 4 is going to be an extremely beneficial 5 factor of the City of Novi. A company that 6 is growing at the rate that it is can only 7 bring good things to the city. 8 I really appreciate the design layout that 9 you guys are proposing to use. I think that 10 you have maximized the area that is 11 buildable. I think that you guys have done 12 the best possible justice to the residents 13 in Country Cousins, the facilities. I think 14 that the sensitive nature of the business 15 that you guys are running and the guard 16 shack necessity will be minimized by the 17 fact that the Haggerty Road entrance will be 18 essentially shut down. 19 I can see that there may be some issue with 20 the dumpster location that is being proposed 21 and I think if maybe that could be moved to 22 a different area of the site I would be in 23 favor of that. I would like to hear from 24 ITC Holdings to determine whether or not
87 1 that's a possibility. I think that this is 2 going to be an extremely exciting and very 3 very beneficial factor to the City of Novi. 4 I think that with the wetlands this is the 5 best possible scenario for this particular 6 site. I don't think that any other company 7 could have come in and given a better 8 proposal to attempt to maintain the wetlands 9 without the City having to purchase it and 10 prevent any kind of building which would be 11 as Member Fischer said, way out the Zoning 12 Board's realm and I don't think that is a 13 possibility. So, again, I very very much 14 applaud the members of ITC Holdings for 15 their design and their attempts to minimize 16 the issues that could come up with the 17 wetland and forestry in the area. Thank 18 you. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Gatt. 20 Anybody else coming along? Yes, City 21 Attorney Sharon Ozga? 22 MS. OZGA: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just 23 want to make two slight comments. First 24 with regard to the wetlands, there has been
88 1 a lot of discussion with the wetlands and 2 there has been some statements that there is 3 a lot of rules and regulations that have to 4 be followed. And ITC will be following 5 them. 6 And I had one comment with regard 7 to some of the variances that are being 8 requested. It's my understanding that some 9 of these variances are being requested in an 10 effort to minimize the impact on the 11 wetlands. So perhaps the location of the 12 dumpster and some of the other setback 13 issues those requests are being made because 14 it's going to minimize the impact on the 15 wetlands a little bit more. 16 Also I wanted to note with regards to the 17 dumpster, the Planning Department was not 18 opposed to the location of the dumpster. I 19 noted that it would be sufficiently screened 20 from view from any of the other neighbors or 21 anything. So perhaps that's something to 22 take into consideration when looking at 23 their variance request for the dumpster. 24 Thank you.
89 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 2 Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 3 MEMBER SHROYER: Do you want to place a 4 comment on the record? 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: (Unintelligible) Go ahead. 6 MEMBER SHROYER: I have to basically support 7 all the comments that have been made so far. 8 I served the city in different capacities 9 and I have had to review things that 10 included wetlands and woodlands and things 11 along that line. I am very very pleased 12 with how this plan has been placed. I have 13 seen companies come in and request that 20, 14 30, 40, 50 percent of the wetlands been 15 filled in and plowed over and trees just 16 leveled everywhere, and it's a constant 17 fight, it's a constant struggle, because if 18 somebody owns the property they have the 19 right to build. 20 Now, we can try to limit things 21 as a city and we have done I think a very 22 good job in most instances. Now has things 23 slipped through the cracks, have we made 24 mistakes, absolutely. If we could go back
90 1 ten years I'm sure a lot of us would do a 2 lot of things all over again. And the 3 people that were in these positions years 4 ago probably would have done things 5 differently as well. Unfortunately we are 6 where we are now and there is not that much 7 land left in Novi to develop. So it's 8 critical that we look at every piece of 9 property as it comes forward, and that's the 10 job of the Planning Commission and the 11 Planning Department. They review those 12 extensively. This unfortunately isn't the 13 proper group for that. 14 As was mentioned earlier, we are stuck 15 basically in reviewing the five variance 16 requests. All the reviews, the wetlands and 17 the woodlands and the road layout and the 18 building heights and everything else was 19 done before, and they were approved. MDEQ 20 has been brought in and I'm sure they 21 reviewed everything in its entirety. 22 I think losing one half acre of wetlands is 23 very very minimal compared to what it could 24 have been. If ITC didn't purchase this land
91 1 or didn't own this land and a different 2 company did, we could see somebody coming in 3 and requesting a huge box building such as a 4 Rock Financial where you limit all the 5 woodlands and just flatten all the wetlands 6 -- flatten the wetlands and ruin the 7 woodlands -- I am saying that backwards, but 8 you know what I mean. For them to build the 9 separate buildings and separate garages and 10 not have one very large building I think is 11 a good plan. 12 And my major concern when I first 13 saw this and I went out and drove the back 14 road, there basically is what's going to be 15 the impact on the entrance from Haggerty 16 Road. And it's nothing. They are going to 17 put up a soot fence or whatever it's called 18 to prevent soil erosion which, of course, is 19 something you want to do. 20 One thing that I would encourage when you 21 look at is when you are looking at trying to 22 green the grass, etcetera, look at natural 23 methods of doing that. Don't look at 24 insecticides and fertilizers and things
92 1 along that line. There is some products out 2 there that can be used to help minimize any 3 affect on the environment. And you are the 4 ones that are going to have to look out the 5 window and see the results of what happens 6 to the wetlands. And what do you want to 7 look out and see? Do you want to look out 8 and see a fawn and a doe? Or do you want to 9 look out and see a bunch of dead trees, a 10 bunch of dead bushes, etcetera? 11 So, I think it behooves them to do 12 everything in their purview to try and make 13 sure that their surroundings are 14 aesthetically pleasing and that the wildlife 15 is there to enjoy by all of their employees 16 as well as the surrounding community and the 17 people that are enjoying that. 18 And I know I have been rambling 19 on here for a while, but you can tell, I 20 hope you can tell it's very dear to my heart 21 and I am really concerned about those areas. 22 Unfortunately, again, we have to review the 23 five zoning Ordinances that are in front of 24 us. In looking at those, I do not see a
93 1 problem with any of them. We did have the 2 little bit of concern about the dumpster, 3 the screening will help the odor. I don't 4 really know the total distance, perhaps you 5 might know the distance to the closest 6 resident? 7 MR. BUTLER: The dumpster is located in that 8 location. It's approximately in excess of 9 500 feet. Understanding of what we 10 structured here, it's pretty well 11 established woodlands as well. So the 12 natural features that are on the site will 13 enhance the screening odor. 14 MEMBER SHROYER: The mitigation of the 15 wetlands that you are proposing or where 16 it's been approved to put it in, that 17 offsets obviously the half acre that's being 18 back filled? 19 MR. BUTLER: Yes. We have an application in 20 with the DEQ, it has not been approved. 21 That's where we are proposing to put it. 22 MEMBER SHROYER: With the removal of the 23 trees, the woodland portion has there been 24 any type of exchange for those, the trees
94 1 that were removed, are you going to be 2 putting in additional trees to offset those? 3 MR. BUTLER: We have a pretty extensive 4 landscaping plan that goes with this site. 5 MEMBER SHROYER: Right. Could you very 6 briefly give us an overview of that for the 7 audience so they understand that at least 8 some things are going back in, we are not 9 just removing. 10 MR. BUTLER: Yeah, there is approximately 11 500, I believe about 539 trees that we are 12 removing in accordance with the City's 13 Woodlands Ordinance. The entire driveway 14 and the areas around the buildings will be 15 landscaped extensively in accordance with 16 the Ordinance of the City. There is a large 17 berm that we are building in this area that 18 will have a significant amount of trees. 19 The entire area along the driveway will be 20 landscaped. The building areas will have 21 not only landscaped street trees or 22 (unintelligible) trees. There we be a 23 foundation planting system around the site. 24 So a significant amount of vegetation is
95 1 going back into the site. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: I understand. I wanted to 3 make sure that the audience was aware of 4 that. Again, it's not in our purview but 5 something else I would like to throw out for 6 consideration. If there is additional 7 landscaping trees perhaps whether it be 8 conifers or whether it be heartwoods or 9 whatever, if anything else is available or 10 you look at additional landscaping down the 11 road, please consider increasing the buffer 12 between the village and the entrance to your 13 substation, even though there is not going 14 to be a lot of traffic there, any type of 15 additional buffer would help not only the 16 aesthetics, but also any type of odor that 17 may come from a dumpster. 18 MR. BUTLER: I understand and appreciate 19 that. Also I would like to point out that 20 the existing wetland structures that are on 21 site will be placed in a conservation 22 easement. There is also woodlands in the 23 area that will also be placed in 24 conservation, so we will be restricted from
96 1 developing going into those areas. Like I 2 said, it's an 83 acre site. We are 3 developing approximately 22, 23 and a half 4 acres of the site. So a lot of it will be 5 left in its natural pristine state. 6 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. Mr. Chair, 7 after your comments, if you like I am 8 prepared to make a Motion. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I just want to 10 go on record. First of all, I want to thank 11 you all. I love these wetlands as you do. 12 I love everything that is living. That's my 13 religion and that's what I believe. So 14 personally I understand exactly where you 15 are all coming from, more than you all 16 realize. But the reality of life is that 17 the function of Zoning Board of Appeals is 18 to only deal with the variance request and 19 nothing more and nothing less. And that is 20 all we can consider in this forum. 21 So you even though I appreciate and I also 22 sympathize and empathize in all that you 23 have said, and my feelings are very similar 24 to yours, there are very few things that we
97 1 can do here as a body. 2 And, again, it's so nice to hear 3 people who are concerned with what goes on 4 in the city and taking time out, coming out 5 here on this cold night. If I had a choice 6 I would have stayed home, but that's not 7 (unintelligible), but you have a choice and 8 you made that choice to come here and talk 9 to us. So thank you again for doing what 10 you did. And so long as we have people like 11 you around in Novi, Novi development is 12 going to be much like a (unintelligible) and 13 people are going to do what is right thing 14 to do. Thank you again. 15 Coming back to tonight in the 16 case on the question here, we have had a lot 17 of discussion here about the various aspects 18 of the situation. And now I will entertain 19 a Motion from the members of the Board. 20 Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 21 MEMBER SHROYER: Move to approve all five 22 variance requests for Case Number 06-097 23 filed by Joe Bennett of ITC Holdings for ITC 24 Transmission Corporate Headquarters for the
98 1 following reasons: Variance number 1, 2 setback variance has no detrimental affect 3 on the adjacent property to the east whereas 4 the existing building is of a respectable 5 distance west of the common property line. 6 Variance number 2, parking alongside the 7 said drive will not fundamentally alter the 8 function of the drive. 9 Variance number 3, reduction of the center 10 line radius to 100 feet -- less than a 100 11 feet would not significantly alter the 12 utilization of the proposed drive. 13 Variance number 4, the size of the proposed 14 structure coupled with the distance from the 15 major thoroughfares allows it to not have 16 detrimental affect on the adjacent 17 properties. 18 Variance number 5, the location of the 19 proposed dumpster is at a distance from 20 adjacent properties so as to not pose a 21 detrimental affect. Also the uniqueness of 22 the properties justify the need to allow 23 variances in order to preserve the 24 substantial amount of regulated wetlands
99 1 present. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 3 MEMBER FISCHER: Might I add a couple of 4 other findings regarding some findings just 5 to ensure that we do meet all of the 6 elements of practical difficulty. I would 7 also like to say that failing to grant 8 relief will unreasonably prevent or limit 9 the use of the property and will result in 10 substantially more than a mere inconvenience 11 or inability to obtain a higher economic or 12 financial return. And also that the grant 13 of relief will not result in a use or 14 structure that is incompatible with or 15 unreasonably interferes with adjacent or 16 sounding properties. 17 In essence substantial justice will be done 18 both to the applicant and adjacent or 19 surrounding properties and this is 20 consistent with the intent of Section 2514 21 that in general throughout the site the 22 preservation of wetland and woodland areas 23 is met. 24 And if you were to accept those I would
100 1 second that Motion. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. The Motion has been 3 made and seconded. 4 I just want to ask 5 (unintelligible) our attorney if there is 6 anything that we need to add or delete from 7 the Motion before we pass it? 8 MS. OZGA: I believe Mr. Shroyer accepted 9 and amended his Motion to add what Mr. 10 Fischer had included and there was a second 11 to that. So that should be sufficient. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. The Motion has 13 been made and seconded. I think we have had 14 enough discussion on this matter. And it's 15 time to call the roll. 16 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 17 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 18 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 19 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 20 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 21 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 22 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 23 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 24 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi?
101 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 2 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 3 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 4 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Thank you. 6 MR. BENNETT: Thank you very much. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I think we will 8 take a five minute recess and resume in five 9 minutes. Thank you. 10 (A recess was held.) 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Let's resume. 12 Case number: 06-098 filed by 13 John S. Gelfusa of Home Works CGO, Inc., for 14 22649 Shadow Paine Way in the Heatherbrae 15 Subdivision. 16 Will you please identify yourself, sir, 17 state your name and address and be sworn in 18 by our secretary. Thank you. 19 MR. GELFUSA: I am John Gelfusa with Home 20 Works, 332 Cass Avenue, Mount Clemens. 21 MEMBER BAUER: Raise your right hand, 22 please. Do you swear or affirm to tell the 23 truth regarding Case: 06-098? 24 MR. GELFUSA: Yes, sir.
102 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Please proceed. 2 MR. GELFUSA: We are proposing a 1.5 3 variance increase on the 25 percent lot 4 coverage. We are building a 336 square feet 5 addition on to an existing home. The 6 footings for this project were put in in 7 1987 and they were inspected. The homeowner 8 had intended to do that back then. Just a 9 normal course of life never got to the point 10 where they could afford it. They are now 11 interested in doing it. But apparently now 12 we are just a hair over the maximum lot 13 coverage. We would like to build on those 14 existing footings and that is what we are 15 hoping we could do here. 16 I do have the homeowner here if 17 you have questions for the homeowner as 18 well. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. That's all, 20 (unintelligible) your case? 21 MR. GELFUSA: Yes, sir. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Is there 23 anybody in the audience who would like to 24 make any comments regarding this case?
103 1 Seeing none, Building Department? 2 MR. SAVEN: I think a pencil was probably 3 sharpened a little bit more since the time 4 they put the footings in. I do apologize of 5 us not catching this any sooner than that. 6 It is relatively a small variance that we 7 are dealing with. We also have a copy of a, 8 I believe, approval, if I am not mistaken. 9 Yes, I think we have it in file and I think 10 you also have an employee from the 11 association. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. We have 43 notices 13 were mailed, zero approval, zero objections. 14 I will open this for discussion to the 15 Board members. Yes, Ms. Krieger? 16 MEMBER KRIEGER: I am in support of a Motion 17 for it. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Short and sweet 19 and precise and succinct. 20 Anybody else? Yes, Mr. Gatt? 21 MEMBER GATT: I am also in support of Motion 22 to approve this variance. I think that it's 23 going to be extremely minimal for a variance 24 request. And I don't really even think that
104 1 it will be noticed by many. 2 I think it's going to be a lovely addition. 3 I think it will do nothing but increase the 4 value of the property and I think that it's 5 going to make a very very, make a very 6 beautiful home even more beautiful. Thank 7 you. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Very good. Anybody else? 9 MEMBER FISCHER: Mr. Chair? 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Fischer? 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I 12 would tend to agree. Ordinances are in 13 place to protect the city and protect other 14 residents and neighboring and surrounding 15 areas and I think it does nothing but adds 16 to the area. It does not detriment it any 17 way. 18 And do we have any other 19 questions? If there are no other questions 20 or comments I would go ahead a make a 21 Motion. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please go ahead. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: In Case Number: 06-098 24 filed by John Gelfusa of Home Works for
105 1 22649 Shadow Pine Way in the Heatherbrae 2 Subdivision that we grant the Petitioner's 3 request given that the Petitioner has 4 established practical difficulty. That the 5 proposed improvement will not be a detriment 6 to public safety, welfare or other neighbors 7 and that it is within the intent of the 8 Ordinance. 9 MEMBER BAUER: Second the Motion. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Motion has been made and 11 seconded. 12 Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 13 MEMBER SHROYER: Would the Motioner be open 14 to a friendly amendment to include that the 15 homeowner's association has provided 16 approval? 17 MEMBER FISCHER: Yes, I would include that 18 our findings of fact. 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. The Motion has 21 been amended and has been approved by the 22 proposer and seconded. And I don't see any 23 further discussion, so, Ms. Working, will 24 you please call the roll.
106 1 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fisher? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 3 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 4 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 5 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 8 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 9 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 10 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 11 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt. 12 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 13 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 6-0. 14 MEMBER SANGHVI: Congratulations. 15 MR. GELFUSA: Thank you very much. 16 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 17 Moving along. Case number: 06-099 filed 18 Luciano Gonzalez of Planet Neon Signs for 19 Miracle Software located at 45625 Grand 20 River Avenue. 21 MR. ANEW: I'm Bailey Anew from Miracle 22 Software. 23 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay, would you kindly 24 identify yourself, state your full name and
107 1 address and be sworn in by our secretary. 2 MR. ANEW: Sure. I'm Bailey Anew, 3 vice-president for Miracle Software. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Would you raise your right 5 hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the 6 truth regarding the Case: 06-099? 7 MR. ANEW: Yes. 8 MEMBER BAUER: Thank you. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Please make your 10 presentation. 11 MR. ANEW: First of all, we would like to 12 thank the City of Novi. We moved from 13 Southfield where we have been there in 14 business for almost eight years. And since 15 our coming down here in May, we have not 16 only increased our revenues, but also 17 increased our people strength, so it's been 18 very good and we enjoy this place. So thanks 19 for all the support here. 20 The reason for the display which we are 21 requesting for is we are uniquely placed 22 today in the IBM world. When we say IBM 23 world, IBM is a major software company 24 addressing large software needs for a lot of
108 1 companies. 2 Miracle Software is one of the 14 innovation 3 centers across the world and what it brings 4 is it's a training center, it's a demo 5 center for a lot of the major projects are 6 key software solutions right now. Like the 7 SOA (unintelligible) architecture and all 8 the new concepts which are all being 9 showcased in the IP world. And what this 10 center brings in is for anybody, it could 11 (unintelligible), it could be a student, 12 offering anybody to come and walk into the 13 center and understand those concepts. And 14 this is one of the 14 centers 15 (unintelligible) and we are uniquely placed 16 from business integration standpoint. 17 Now all this is being relayed out on our 18 website and we send names to lot of 19 corporations and everybody, but for those 20 people who live in and around this place and 21 for all those people who travel around, this 22 display will be continually displaying as to 23 what is going to be showcased during that 24 particular session or something. It's a
109 1 continuous ongoing work, so that's the 2 reason that we wanted to have the display so 3 that everybody can take advantage of it. 4 Thank you. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. I don't see 6 very many people in the audience left, so if 7 anybody wants to make any comment about this 8 case they are welcome. 9 Seeing none, I will go on to the Building 10 Department. 11 MR. SAVEN: No comment, sir. 12 MR. AMOLSCH: Mr. Chairman, just for a point 13 of information for the Board, the latest 14 sign Ordinance only allows changeable 15 company signs for businesses such as place 16 of worship, schools, movie theatres, and 17 similar entertainment venues which shows 18 performers or entertainers' names on a 19 regular basis, gas stations, restaurants, 20 recreational facilities at which events 21 change on a regular basis and these are the 22 only uses that are permitted for change of 23 copy signs under the new Ordinance. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you, Mr. Amolsch.
110 1 Twenty-eight notices were mailed, zero 2 approval, zero objections. I open it up to 3 the Board now. 4 Yes, Mr. Bauer? 5 MEMBER BAUER: In this particular case I 6 would have to go along with what the 7 Ordinance states that there be no changeable 8 copy. There is no hardship shown at this 9 point to defend it. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 11 MEMBER SHROYER: (Unintelligible) the sign, 12 it's a beautiful sign, but, it always seems 13 to be a but, under the new section as was 14 stated it really doesn't comply with the 15 changeable sign part of the Ordinance. The 16 question that I would have to you because 17 I'm right now leaning towards a denial is 18 give me some examples of what the sign would 19 say and why you would need to have that. 20 MR. ANEW: Sure. I'm not a very well versed 21 with the (unintelligible) but as per my 22 operations. One of the things is when we 23 first designed and signed this contract I 24 believe we were allowed to do that and the
111 1 sign Ordinance was operated after 9-26-06. 2 I am not very familiar, but I would request 3 your help on that. 4 But in terms of the actual display what 5 (unintelligible) center really means is, 6 it's a demo center, it's like a training 7 center. So what we would have is like 8 today, service oriented architecture and its 9 importance for the industry. Thus we are 10 modeling and its need for today's world. So 11 basically it's very specific to the topic 12 only as like automotive industry 13 architecture (unintelligible) and it's a 14 very high level, it's very high level 15 education which you won't get it until you 16 pay for like a $5,000 or $6,000 fee if you 17 have to go for outside training centers. 18 And this is a facility which is funded by 19 IBM and Miracle. And it's a giant facility 20 that people can take advantage of it. And we 21 want everybody to take advantage of it. We 22 won't have a big display or something, it's 23 only those few words like the Rock World 24 Financial or something like that, so that's
112 1 the only thing that you want to see. 2 MEMBER SHROYER: So you're not advertising 3 what's for sale inside? 4 MR. ANEW: No, sir. 5 MEMBER SHROYER: It's only the training 6 programs that are offered during that 7 particular time? 8 MR. ANEW: Exactly. 9 MEMBER SHROYER: And it won't change the 10 next day or the next day or the following 11 week or whatever? 12 MR. ANEW: We don't have any advertising 13 programs or anything like that. The topic 14 of display would be the content which is 15 going to be demoed on that particular day. 16 Like, for example, we had the ASO Innovation 17 day, the inauguration day and IBM 18 (unintelligible) students from the worldwide 19 departments have come in and presented the 20 SOA infrastructure. 21 A lot of people around including our City of 22 Novi has come there and they said that we 23 weren't able to understand. They identify 24 with the location obviously because they
113 1 know the location, but they did not 2 understand why exactly this is being placed. 3 Some neighbors who are coming in and said 4 maybe this is something like would like to 5 take advantage of it. So it would help 6 people to understand what this is all about. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr. -- 8 MEMBER SHROYER: May I continue? 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Sorry (unintelligible). 10 MEMBER SHROYER: Education and training is 11 my business. I understand where you are 12 coming from with that and I understand the 13 reason and the need. The concerns that I 14 have, and this is just for everybody else's 15 thoughts, I guess, is the City spent a lot 16 of time reviewing the sign Ordinance and 17 came up with some very specific 18 recommendations as to who they felt this 19 sign should be used for, changeable signs. 20 You don't fall into one of those categories. 21 And because it is new and because, like I 22 said, they spent a lot of time and took a 23 lot of consideration with this, I am very 24 hesitant to make a recommendation that that
114 1 be approved. 2 If we do end up with a denial and 3 you do have permission to have a monument 4 sign obviously, what would you do instead? 5 Would you take the center portion and say 6 training facility or something like that as 7 opposed to having the changeable sign? 8 MR. ANEW: Before I go into it, the reason 9 why the schools -- we are not a school for 10 sure, we are not a school, but this is also 11 a training facility for all the IBM related 12 softwares and not only IBM and all the key 13 softwares within the IP world right now. 14 But we have not thought about any changes 15 because we always thought that this is 16 something which is going to be key for in 17 terms of the demos and information for the 18 local people around here, like for 19 automotive customers and particularly all 20 the people around there. So have not thought 21 about any alternate as of now, and we don't 22 intend to do any other, other than the 23 company stamp, we don't have any other ideas 24 right now.
115 1 MEMBER SHROYER: Thank you. That's all have 2 I for now, Mr. Chair. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 4 Yes, Mr. Gatt? 5 MEMBER GATT: I have one question for you. 6 First of all, how often do you feel that the 7 sign's electronic changeable portion of the 8 sign will change? Is it a daily situation 9 where there is one training on that 10 particular day or is it per week? Will it 11 be a constantly changing five per minute 12 type sign where it will be five different 13 things per minute that would change over? 14 MR. ANEW: Good question, sir. Right now 15 what we are doing right now is every 15 days 16 we have web casts. Which the innovation 17 center is right now is doing. So currently 18 it's every 15 days change. But what we 19 intend to do is we want to invite the local 20 customers more often and see if we can bring 21 in this, it's thought more revenue for the 22 company as well as for the City, so we 23 intend to do it like weekly once, so that's 24 the intent right now. So it's not a major
116 1 like five-minute or it's not, it's not 2 something to attract people or anything like 3 that. And the best part of this is the 4 majority of the people who come in over 5 there they either apply through the 6 operations or somebody, but there is so many 7 business around here who are not able to 8 take advantage of it, and we would like to 9 display that for those people. 10 MEMBER GATT: Thank you. My other thoughts 11 on this are, I understand that it is not 12 specifically included in the changeable sign 13 variance that the City has adopted, however, 14 I feel that if the City of Novi were to have 15 thought, well, there is going to be a very 16 high level IBM training software facility in 17 the City of Novi, maybe, I think that this 18 is so unique that this might have gone 19 beyond the realm of something that they 20 would have thought of to even consider 21 putting it in. I don't think that this is 22 for advertisement to sell any type of 23 product or anything like that which would be 24 a detriment.
117 1 I think that this particular company and the 2 service they provide is a demonstrated need 3 and hardship to have a changeable copy sign 4 that would state what was going on for an 5 outsider of this City to come to this 6 particular thing if they had a day where 7 they had this training where people from 8 Southfield or any other city around the area 9 was trying to find them, they needed to find 10 this particular training for this particular 11 type of software on that week, this is the 12 only real option that they have is to have a 13 changeable copy sign. That I think that 14 would be the hardship that could be 15 considered in a Motion today. That's all. 16 Thank you. 17 MEMBER SANGHVI: I just like to go on the 18 record myself. I think this is an 19 innovative idea. And I'll give you an 20 example from the history, when that when 21 Andrew Jackson was the president of the 22 United States of the America and they were 23 trying to lay some tracks for a railroad 24 there was a lot of opposition. What will
118 1 happen to the horses? Who will treat them? 2 Who would provide them water, this, that and 3 other things? And the people would run in 4 front of this track and got killed and all 5 that. That was over a hundred years ago. 6 But times keep changing, we need to keep 7 changing with the times. 8 And I personally have no objection with your 9 concept. I understand what you are trying 10 to say. I applaud you for what you are 11 thinking about in putting over there, and if 12 you are going to change the sign only once 13 or week or so I have no problem with it. 14 The second thing, because it is not listed 15 in the whole category of the things the City 16 has thought about, that is one of the 17 reasons why we are here to give a variance, 18 a use variance if you want to call it to try 19 and see if we think it is a worthwhile 20 thing. And if it's not going to do any harm 21 to anybody else in the community. And I 22 personally have no difficulty in supporting 23 your request. Thank you. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: One question for the Board.
119 1 You weren't there when Andrew Jackson said 2 that, were you? 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: I was there, I've been 4 around for a long time. (Unintelligible) 5 been around for a long time. 6 (Unintelligible). 7 MEMBER BAUER: Let me see his autograph. 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right, I will show you 9 when you come to my house. Thank you. 10 MEMBER FISCHER: But I do have a couple 11 pieces of clarification for myself just to 12 make sure that I fully understand what this 13 sign is used for. Number one, my 14 understanding is that this is for specific 15 training courses, kind of specific days that 16 those courses will be going on. Is that 17 correct, number one? 18 MR. ANEW: It's only for the specific days on 19 which those specific topics are covered, so 20 it's only on that. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Okay. The reason I ask that 22 is because in the packet of information we 23 were given it said a listing of company 24 information as to what they provide. And if
120 1 this was purely going to be used for general 2 information, then I would be hesitant to 3 support. If it was just this is what we do 4 on a day to day basis, then I would be 5 hesitant to support. But I see these 6 training sessions as I would say events at 7 Rock Financial Show Place, which I would 8 support. 9 Number two, you had mentioned 10 that this is not going to be a flashing 11 sign, it's not going to be continuously 12 moving, it's not going to be changed every 13 five minutes. This is going to show 14 something for an extended period of time, 15 correct? 16 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir. In fact, what we did 17 is, if I understand right, if we just put 18 that level out of there it cost us something 19 around 6,000, but because it's not mandatory 20 to put a title (unintelligible), so it's 21 almost doubled the cost now to put in that 22 sign. And it's purely to make sure that 23 this city takes advantage of this high level 24 courses or high level software business and
121 1 make an awareness amongst their people. 2 Particularly there is a lot of schools 3 around, a lot people are traveling around so 4 it would be a good events for a lot of those 5 people there. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: I know it may seem like I'm 7 kind of beating a bit of a dead horse there, 8 but I wanted to make sure that those two -- 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: I'm sure you didn't intend 10 any pun. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Are very clear because like 12 I said I would compare the events to, the 13 intent of the Ordinance is for changing 14 events so people can be made aware of 15 certain events, and that's what I think that 16 this sign is trying to do. It's not purely 17 flashing and advertising. 18 And number two, I had serious concerns if it 19 was a continuously changing sign as far as 20 the public safety. People going 50 miles 21 per hour watching something flash by. So, 22 given those two facts regarding this 23 particular sign I feel that this sign is 24 within the intent of where the Ordinance was
122 1 trying to go and I would be willing to 2 support this unique instance. 3 Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity 4 and I apologize for the joke about Andrew 5 Jackson. 6 MEMBER SANGHVI: That's no problem. That's 7 okay, I am quite used to it. Yes? 8 MEMBER KRIEGER: I agree with the previous 9 speaker and he stole my word unique. 10 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 11 MEMBER SHROYER: The Board basically has 12 convinced me to change my mind. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Saven, are you 14 saying something? (Unintelligible). 15 MR. SHROYER: For a couple reasons and one 16 would be I would be in support of a Motion 17 if the provisions are as we just discussed 18 through Mr. Fischer, and because I have for 19 quite some time said that the City building 20 needs that kind of sign out front, the 21 changeable copy sign and they're not listed 22 in this either. It doesn't say anything 23 about governmental buildings 24 (unintelligible) so that is unique as well.
123 1 So with those thoughts in mind I would be 2 willing to support if somebody would make a 3 Motion. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Saven? 5 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chair, I do appreciate all 6 the comments and certainly Mr. Fischer 7 stepping up to the plate in terms of being 8 specific to this sign. But I just want to 9 caution the Board, somewhere along the line 10 you are going to be dealing with a lot of 11 this stuff that may be coming forward in 12 regard to this particular issue and I want 13 to make sure that the intent or what the 14 intent of the Ordinance is trying to do is 15 basically what you guys are looking at. 16 Because you could have every business 17 looking kind of at the same thing here. And 18 I am not trying to sway anybody one way or 19 the other. 20 I think what you did, you figured 21 out what it was that this gentleman is 22 trying to deal with, and that's good. But 23 just bear in mind, signage in this city is 24 so critical to every business here and this
124 1 is one of the things that you are going to 2 be looking at. So take into account, you 3 have already heard this gentleman and you 4 heard his appeal, it sounds to me like you 5 are satisfied with what he is indicating, 6 what the intent of the Ordinance is, but 7 this is like a whole can of worms here. I 8 am just indicating that. 9 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. Thank you for 10 your warning, sir. I appreciate your 11 comments. But my mind is made up. Thank 12 you. 13 Go ahead, sir. 14 MEMBER BAUER: One last little thing. This 15 is as an education item, correct? 16 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir. 17 MEMBER BAUER: You are selling something, 18 correct? 19 MR. ANEW: No, this is not a charge for. 20 MEMBER BAUER: You are not charging for the 21 students? 22 MR. ANEW: For the demos we don't charge 23 anything. It is a showcase for the 24 products.
125 1 MEMBER BAUER: So, you are not charging for 2 the students, am I correct? 3 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir, we don't charge for the 4 students. 5 MEMBER BAUER: I can't say anything else. 6 Because education would be as the same thing 7 as for a school building, for an automobile 8 dealership. You are selling something. 9 MR. ANEW: The larger benefit to where we 10 get to the (unintelligible) of this 11 particular -- 12 MEMBER BAUER: I like the intent, believe 13 me. 14 MR. ANEW: Yes, sir. 15 MEMBER BAUER: But what the Ordinance is 16 calling for at this time our forefathers 17 must have left something out. But I still 18 would have to vote no. Thank you. 19 MEMBER SANGHVI: All right. Well, I wish I 20 could make a Motion but I don't want to. Go 21 ahead. 22 MEMBER GATT: I would like to make a Motion 23 in case number: 06-099 filed by Luciano 24 Gonzalez of Planet Neon Signs for Miracle
126 1 Software located at 45625 Grand River 2 Avenue. I would like to make a Motion to 3 grant the variance requested for a 30.75 4 square foot ground sign with a changeable 5 copy message center included due to the fact 6 that this is a unique property and the 7 uniqueness of the services provided, and 8 without this variance there would be a 9 significant hardship to the company. Thank 10 you. 11 MEMBER FISCHER: Amendment. A couple things. 12 First of all, I just want to point out that 13 the Board used practical difficulty as the 14 element upon the set of hardship for one 15 amendment. And number two, I would strongly 16 urge that we discuss the intent of the 17 Ordinance, and that was the major reason for 18 moving to approve this, that this sign meets 19 the intent of the Ordinance, this particular 20 and very unique sign and the use of this 21 sign meet the intent of the Ordinance. So 22 if I could make those two friendly 23 amendments. 24 MEMBER GATT: Agreed.
127 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes, Mr. Shroyer? 2 MEMBER SHROYER: Are you going to consider 3 putting in any provisions, times and lengths 4 and things along those lines and that it 5 would be only limited to the training 6 activities? Are do you put it in the realm 7 of a school or similar to those of Rock 8 Financial? 9 MEMBER GATT: I can put in a provision to 10 state that the changeable copy display only 11 events for the property, but I don't want to 12 put a specific time limit on an event. What 13 if one event is every day, and if we say 14 every seven days that would be something 15 that would be an issue. Do we say only to 16 be changed every 24 hours? I don't know. 17 MEMBER SHROYER: I guess I'm just looking 18 for a little more detail to help justify why 19 this sign and how it can be approved because 20 as the City stated, or indirectly stated, we 21 could see the entire Grand River Avenue with 22 nothing but changeable signs and you would 23 accidents one after another trying to read 24 all of them as you are going down the road.
128 1 So I want to see something more unique if 2 possible as to specifics. And I don't want 3 to put words in anybody's mouth. 4 MEMBER SANGHVI: Would you like to exchange? 5 MEMBER FISCHER: If you have any suggestions 6 I think the Board would be up to hearing any 7 suggestions and then the Motion maker could 8 decide whether he would accept that 9 suggestion. 10 MEMBER SHROYER: I think one of them would 11 be limited to training activities and not to 12 include any merchandise or retail sales 13 activities or something similar to that or 14 verbiage similar to that, and something that 15 perhaps would mirror the fact that training 16 activities are also going on in schools 17 which does fall within our guidelines. And 18 it's a specific event that does fall within 19 the guidelines of places such as Rock 20 Financial. I am just trying to tie some 21 things in so the next applicant that comes 22 forward and says, you know, I want it too, 23 we have something to point out as to the 24 reasons why this one was approved and theirs
129 1 may not be. 2 MEMBER FISCHER: I kind of see where you are 3 going with that. The one thing I would say 4 is that it's not our job to prove to the 5 petitioner why we're not going to approve 6 the next person. 7 Just for example I was driving 8 down and I saw Johnson Printing right next 9 door, if I may. And I thought, well, what 10 if they come before us. First of all, it's 11 not our job to prove that they can't have 12 it. They have to prove why they have 13 difficulty. And in that instance they don't 14 have the training center, they don't have 15 the training sessions going on, so I would 16 have no problem denying such a hypothetical 17 case. You know obviously if they came 18 before us I would look at that, but each 19 case is looked uniquely and we don't look, I 20 don't and I don't think we are instructed to 21 look at past cases. 22 So I like, I kind of see where 23 you are going with some of those, but I 24 don't think we necessarily need to put
130 1 restrictions on them in order to stop 2 someone else from coming before us. The 3 biggest thing is they have the burden of 4 proof. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 6 MEMBER GATT: My concern about adding a 7 provision to my Motion to limit the types of 8 verbiage that can be placed on the sign is 9 that I don't know exactly what type of 10 training, like I said, it's only for 11 software training or in classes. What if 12 they have a convention of some type, you 13 know, we don't have a blanketed -- if we 14 don't have a blanketed statement that says 15 they can put anything that is related to 16 this company on it, I can leave out things, 17 I could say as long as it doesn't include 18 any type of retail or merchandising 19 displays, that I would be okay with amending 20 my Motion with that. 21 MEMBER SHROYER: That would help. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Go ahead. 23 MS. OZGA: I was just going to question, 24 what are you amending your Motion to say
131 1 exactly? 2 MEMBER FISCHER: I think we are still kind 3 of conversing -- 4 MS. OZGA: No, because I was just going to 5 comment on Mr. Shroyer's comment. It would 6 be appropriate if you attempted to 7 distinguish this applicant's situation from 8 the general situation in the city to show 9 that this, if this is the route that the 10 Board is going, to show that this is a 11 unique property compared to general 12 property, general commercial businesses, 13 things like that. 14 MEMBER SHROYER: I also have another 15 question while we're on that. If the 16 property sales and another group comes in. 17 They already have a monument sign, obviously 18 they would have to get approval to the 19 change the name on the sign, it went to ABC 20 Construction, but now they got a changeable 21 sign there with their name on it. Are they 22 going to be permitted to use the changeable 23 sign? 24 MEMBER FISCHER: We can stick to this
132 1 business only. We have done it in the past. 2 MR. AMOLSCH: Limit it to this Petitioner 3 only? 4 MEMBER FISCHER: Um-hum. 5 MEMBER SHROYER: Then I would like to see 6 that be added to the Motion as well. 7 MEMBER SANGHVI: To this particular 8 business. 9 MEMBER GATT: Okay, I would like to amend my 10 Motion to include the provision that A, this 11 variance is only for this Petitioner and no 12 other. B, the changeable copy sign 13 display -- not display any type of retail or 14 merchandising. And C, that this is due to 15 the fact that this is an extremely unique 16 business and the business of having training 17 seminars and the like is not -- how do I 18 want to put this? 19 MEMBER SHROYER: Is acceptable. 20 MEMBER GATT: Is acceptable. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: I would second. 22 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 23 MEMBER FISCHER: I would second the amended 24 Motion.
133 1 MEMBER SANGHVI: The Motion has been made 2 and seconded. Any further discussion, any 3 comments from anybody else? 4 MR. SAVEN: I will shut up. 5 MEMBER SANGHVI: Seeing none, Ms. Working, 6 would you please call the roll. 7 ROBIN WORKING: Member Gatt? 8 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 9 ROBIN WORKING: Member Fischer? 10 MEMBER FISCHER: Aye. 11 ROBIN WORKING: Member Krieger? 12 MEMBER KRIEGER: Yes. 13 ROBIN WORKING: Member Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: No. 15 ROBIN WORKING: Member Shroyer? 16 MEMBER SHROYER: Yes. 17 ROBIN WORKING: Member Sanghvi? 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Yes. 19 ROBIN WORKING: Motion passes 5-1. 20 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 21 MR. ANEW: Thank you. 22 MR. SANGHVI: All right. That takes care of 23 this. 24 Now, the other matters. ZBA training dates
134 1 February 13th or the 27th. 2 ROBIN WORKING: Mr. Chair, it was brought to 3 the attention of the Board two months ago by 4 Member Fischer that we might entertain a 5 training event in regards to bringing the 6 Board up to speed on the current Ordinance 7 changes as well as establishing practical 8 difficulty and hardships in their Motion. 9 Mr. Schultz has given us two dates to choose 10 from. He would like for you to choose one 11 of those two dates for the training program 12 for Tuesday. 13 MEMBER SANGHVI: February 13th is good date 14 for me. 15 MEMBER FISCHER: I like the earlier date as 16 well. 17 MEMBER KRIEGER: It's okay with me. 18 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. It looks like it's 19 going to be February 13th. 20 ROBIN WORKING: February 13th. 21 MEMBER FISCHER: Do we have a time on that, 22 Robin? 23 ROBIN WORKING: Not yet. 24 MEMBER FISCHER: I am assuming it would be
135 1 somewhere around the time that the meeting 2 starts? 3 ROBIN WORKING: That was my understanding 4 when I corresponded with Mr. Schultz. 5 MEMBER GATT: I would request that it 6 wouldn't be a later time, at the time of a 7 regular Zoning Board meeting. 8 ROBIN WORKING: So 7:30? 9 MEMBER GATT: That would be the only way I 10 would be able to attend. 11 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. Mr. Saven? 12 MR. SAVEN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's 13 been brought to my attention that the 14 Planning Commission is entertaining the fact 15 that it's starting at 7:00 much like the 16 Council has been doing at this time. We 17 have touched base with this issue once 18 before, based upon some of the concerns of 19 those Board members whether or not we wanted 20 to do this, I would like to bring this up to 21 the Board at this time to see whether or not 22 you wish to entertain that 7:00 time and if 23 so, let us know. 24 It's difficult to get here after
136 1 work or whatever we need to function. 2 MEMBER SANGHVI: That is correct. And we 3 shall function. 4 MEMBER BAUER: Do we function better with 5 something to eat? 6 MEMBER KRIEGER: Order dinner. 7 MEMBER FISCHER: Are we allowed to make 8 comments? I know that currently, I know 9 that Mr. Gatt has a difficult time. I cut 10 it a little close each time. And Member 11 Krieger, she usually sometimes has to move 12 her schedule around. I see the intention of 13 the Planning Commission and City Council, 14 they often go a lot later than we do. And I 15 think they also have a larger viewership 16 than we do and I think they try to meet 17 those by having that earlier start time. 18 But given our current makeup of the Board I 19 would prefer to leave it at 7:30. 20 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 21 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 22 MR. SAVEN: There was one objection, I 23 probably wouldn't entertain it. 24 MEMBER SANGHVI: I think we are all right as
137 1 we are. 2 MR. SAVEN: Okay, that's fine. 3 MEMBER SANGHVI: Thank you. 4 MR. SAVEN: I just thought I would bring it 5 up. 6 MEMBER FISCHER: About a new building 7 official, though? 8 MEMBER SANGHVI: Okay. (Unintelligible). 9 The Chair will entertain a Motion to 10 Adjourn. 11 (Unintelligible): So moved. 12 MEMBER SANGHVI: So moved. Meeting is 13 adjourned. Thank you. 14 (The meeting was adjourned 15 at 10:05 p.m.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
138 1 C E R T I F I C A T E 2 3 4 I, Mona L. Talton, do hereby certify 5 that I have recorded stenographically the 6 proceedings had and testimony taken in the 7 above-entitled matter at the time and place 8 hereinbefore set forth, and I do further 9 certify that the foregoing transcript, 10 consisting of (117) typewritten pages, is a 11 true and correct transcript of my said 12 stenographic notes. 13 14 15 16 17 18 _____________________________ 19 Mona L. Talton, 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 22 January 22, 2007 23 24
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