| View Agenda for this meeting View Action Summary for this meeting REGULAR MEETING -- ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS Proceedings had and testimony taken in the matters of ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS at City of Novi, 45175 West Ten Miles Road, Novi, Michigan, on Tuesday, April 1, 2003. BOARD MEMBERS ALSO PRESENT: REPORTED BY: Novi, Michigan 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 8 It looks like everybody is here. We'll 9 call this meeting to order. 10 I'll welcome the new 11 stenographer. Thanks for being here. 12 Let's call the board. 13 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 14 Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Present. 16 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 17 Brennan? 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Here. 19 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 20 Gatt? 21 MEMBER GATT: Here. 22 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 23 Gray? 24 MEMBER GRAY: Present. 4
1 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 2 Gronachan? 3 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Present. 4 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 5 Reinke? MEMBER 6 REINKE: Here. 7 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Reed? 8 MEMBER REED: Present. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 10 Ladies and Gentlemen, we do have some rules 11 of conduct that are on the front page of 12 the Agenda. I'd ask you to read them and 13 adhere to them. Before we approve the 14 Agenda though, I'd like to introduce two 15 new members: Mr. Robert Gatt who has been 16 appointed a permanent member. Robert, 17 welcome to the Board. 18 MEMBER GATT: Thank you. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: And 20 Chris Reed who is going to sit in and fill 21 an alternate role. So you'll have -- as we 22 have vacations and people missing, you'll 23 have a full membership role. 24 The Zoning Board of Appeals 5
1 is a hearing board empowered by the Novi 2 City Charter to hear appeals seeking 3 variances from the application of the Novi 4 Zoning Ordinance. It takes a vote of at 5 least four members to approve a variance 6 request and a vote of the majority of the 7 members present to deny. 8 We do have a full Board 9 tonight, and the decisions will be final. 10 Any changes to the Agenda? 11 MS. MARCHIONI: Yes. Case 12 Number 03-020 filed by Matthew Quinn 13 representing Asbury Park Estates, the 14 first variance will be taken off. They 15 have met the requirements for the two 16 acres. Whoever is going to be representing 17 will explain all that. 18 And then under Other 19 Matters, On the Border - mock-up sign will 20 be reviewed. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 22 So we have an amended 23 Agenda. All those in favor of approving 24 this say aye. 6
1 MEMBERS: Aye. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I think 3 that's a majority. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 5 We have the minutes from the February 4th 6 meeting. Any comments, changes, 7 criticisms, observations? 8 (No response from the 9 Board.) 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All those 11 in favor of approving say aye? 12 ALL MEMBERS: Aye. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 14 right. Public Remarks. We'll open this 15 portion to public remarks to any case that 16 is not on our Agenda. If you're here on a 17 particular case, wait until that case is 18 called and we'll make sure you get your 19 say. 20 Anybody that would like to 21 talk to us right now? 22 (No response from the 23 audience.) 24 CASE NO. 03-004 - MODERN SKATE & SURF 7
1 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 3 right. Then we'll move forward. We're 4 going to call our first case, Modern Skate 5 & Surf. Come on down. 6 Give us your name and raise 7 your right hand and be sworn. 8 MR. LEICHTWEIS: My name is 9 George Leichtweis. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 11 swear or affirm that the information you're 12 about to give in the matter before you is 13 the truth? 14 MR. LEICHTWEIS: Yes, I do. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 16 you. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay, 18 George. This is somewhat of a 19 continuation. It's kind of a strange set 20 of circumstance. We seem to have a little 21 bit of a misunderstanding between what the 22 Board approved last month and what you 23 really wanted, and I think we can pretty 24 quickly resolve this. Go ahead and 8
1 present your case. 2 MR. LEICHTWEIS: Well, I 3 applied for a variance. I'm owner of 4 Modern Skate & Surf in Fountain Walk and 5 asked for a variance to the size of my sign 6 out there, for several reasons. Number 7 one, it wasn't a hindrance to any of my 8 neighbors; number two, that it needed to be 9 larger than the 40 square feet in order to 10 be able to be seen from the road that goes 11 by the mall, and to be seen from various 12 parts of the parking lot. 13 I've been open since the 1st 14 of January without a sign, so I'm in need 15 of a nice looking sign up on the building 16 to attract attention. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 18 you. Anyone in the audience that wants to 19 make a point on this particular case? 20 (No response from the 21 audience.) 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: 20 new 23 notices sent. No approvals, no 24 objections. 9
1 Building Department? 2 MR. SAVEN: Only that 3 George is aware that he has some 4 outstanding issues on his TCO that needs to 5 be complied with as soon as possible and 6 has to deal with the facade of the 7 building. I want to make sure that it's 8 complied with. 9 MR. LEICHTWEIS: Yes. I 10 spoke with 11 Andy and he's been communicating on that 12 end, and we'll get that taken care of. 13 MR. SAVEN: Thank you. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Maybe 15 I'll point out, as my memory recalls it was 16 the Board's wish that your sign be in line 17 with the sign right next door, in terms of 18 size and letters and such. And the party 19 that was before us last month wasn't able 20 to come up with a square footage, and 21 that's where we kind of got out of 22 squirrel. 23 Personally, I believe that 24 what you have presented tonight is in order 10
1 with what we're looking for, and I don't 2 have any problem with it. 3 Any other Board members? 4 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 5 Chairman, I'll assuming then what he's 6 proposing tonight is a variance request of 7 93.6 square feet? 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: No, the 9 variance -- yes -- no, it's 53.6. 10 MEMBER REINKE: Yeah, but I 11 mean the square footage he's proposing is 12 93.6. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Correct. 14 Again, it was my impression 15 that this makes this sign very close to 16 what's right next door which is what I had 17 been pushing for last month. 18 Sarah? 19 MEMBER GRAY: Since this 20 does meet what I thought was our intent as 21 well, I'm going to move that in the matter 22 of Case 03-004 that we approve the variance 23 requested of 53.6 square feet for a total 24 square footage of the sign of 93.6 square 11
1 feet. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have a 4 motion and a second. Any discussion? 5 (No discussion by the 6 Board.) 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Gray? 9 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 10 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 11 Gronachan? 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 13 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 14 Bauer? 15 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 16 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 17 Brennan? 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 19 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 20 Gatt? 21 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 22 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 23 Reinke? 24 MEMBER REINKE: No. 12
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: George, 2 you have your sign. 3 MR. LEICHTWEIS: Thank you 4 very much. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: See the 6 Building Department for the permits and 7 thanks for working with us. 8 MR. LEICHTWEIS: Thank you 9 very much. 10 CASE NO. 03-005 - HARRY CHAWNEY 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Next 12 case is also a continuation. Mr. 13 Chawney -- is that right? 14 MR. CHAWNEY: Correct. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 16 Mr. Chawney wants to build a house on the 17 corner of -- let's see. I'm going to get 18 this right this time. It's going to be the 19 northwest corner of Novi and Nine Mile. 20 MR. CHAWNEY: Correct. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: And 22 there were some issues last month regarding 23 concerns of your neighbors. Some issues 24 raised by those on the board regarding 13
1 drainage and rivers and swamps and mice and 2 rabbits and deer and elephants and 3 everything, so. You're still sworn. So 4 why don't you tell us what's new this 5 month. 6 MR. CHAWNEY: Well, I met 7 with my neighbors and I discussed all 8 what's going on with my lots, and they're 9 here so they'll tell you what they want to 10 say. We're still at an impasse basically. 11 They don't want me to build any house 12 unless someone gives them a complete 13 guarantee that their basement will never 14 flood. I certainly can't do that and I 15 don't know anyone who ever would do that. 16 What I'm really asking for 17 right now is just to get my variance to get 18 my other things approved. I know the 19 consultants for the City and the engineers 20 and the state, they would be the ones who 21 would in fact determine whether or not I 22 could build a house on that lot anyway. 23 The house I am proposing, 24 again, is 29 feet tall. What's allowed in 14
1 R-3 is 35 feet. If I had a sloped roof 2 over the little attic area that's 3 considered a third floor, it would still be 4 35 feet high, but then it wouldn't comply 5 with the zoning ordinance. And I just 6 wish to get some action taken on that 7 tonight one way or the other. 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 9 I'll remind those in the 10 audience that what is before this Board is 11 only a variance request for the height of 12 the structure being three stories versus 13 two and a half stories, and it will be our 14 interpretation of whether that is within 15 the petitioner's reason. 16 I'll open this to members of 17 the audience. Anyone that cares to talk to 18 us, come on down, please. Give us your 19 name and address, please. 20 21 MS. MAHLMEISTER: Thank you, 22 Mr. Chairman, Board. My name is Tina 23 Mahlmeister. My husband and I, Dan 24 Mahlmeister, own the property which is 15
1 directly to the north of 43421 Nine Mile 2 Road. 3 I understand that he's 4 requesting the variance and we do -- I am 5 the only house who currently has a basement 6 who currently does not have any leaking due 7 to Thorton Creek, which is currently what 8 divides his property and my property, which 9 floods during the spring and in the winter 10 thawing. I know that 11 variances and -- what am I looking for -- 12 with the Building Department, the City of 13 Novi sets forth zoning and variance rules 14 for a reason. Their wisdom in regards to 15 how the city is projected and what have 16 you, and a three-story building really 17 would affect the current appearance of the 18 houses that are around, which I am against. 19 20 Second, the issue was tabled 21 from last week to address the possible 22 drainage issue, and I am here to protect 23 what I currently own as well as the other 24 house that's on Novi Road, which is to the 16
1 west of his property. We currently own our 2 houses; he does not own this property 3 currently. And I would like the DEQ and 4 the Building Department to give some 5 type -- or Engineering -- to give some type 6 of -- just to look at it just to see. 7 Because unfortunately, building a house 8 will change the lay of the land. 9 And we do have the six 10 houses that are at the entrance of Novi and 11 Nine Mile Road has a terrible flooding 12 issue which goes all the way back to the 13 subdivision to the west of us. 14 Thank you for your time. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Anybody 16 else in the audience? 17 (No response from the 18 audience.) 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Let's 20 move to the Building Department then. 21 Don, you weren't here last 22 month but we heard some of the same 23 testimony and we at least wanted some 24 consideration or some discussion, and 17
1 hopefully tonight's meeting would address 2 drainage and some of these other issues. 3 MR. SAVEN: Drainage pattern 4 isn't going to change, strictly for the 5 fact that water will seek its own level, 6 and the fact that he's building his house, 7 it will be involved in the floodplain. 8 There were certain issues that the M-DEQ 9 and FEMA require, and also the building 10 codes require for those homes which are 11 built on a floodplain. This is not a flood 12 way but a floodplain, which means he has a 13 right that he can do this provided he comes 14 up the engineering associated with what 15 he's building in that particular area. 16 These issues will be looked 17 at through the City Engineer when he 18 presents his plans or if the Board decides 19 to so choose to approve tonight, he would 20 be required to meet those specific 21 requirements. 22 Again, what the Chairman had 23 indicated earlier is that this person is 24 here now because of the height 18
1 requirement. This is strictly a height 2 requirement which he's here for. One of 3 the things is that the third story is a 4 third story, based upon the fact that it is 5 a flat roof and it encompasses, and does 6 not have an eaves line that is formulated 7 by the slope of a roof. Therefore, that 8 issue is what he's here for tonight. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, 10 I'll even get it a little bit more 11 defined. He's not here for height, he's 12 here for the number of stories. The 13 ordinance clearly says that you can't have 14 a three-story home in this zoned 15 property. He is within and, in fact, five 16 and a half feet under the maximum allowed 17 height of the building. So what we are 18 dealing with before this Board tonight, 19 whether we feel that there is sufficient 20 hardship presented that this building as 21 designed and as perceived by the Building 22 Department in the City of Novi as a 23 three-story house, is within our judgment 24 to deny or approve. It's as simple as 19
1 that. 2 Any other Board members, 3 please? 4 MS. GRAY: Mr. Chawney, 5 could you, with the overhead, could you 6 show me on the side elevation, where what I 7 would call grade, road grade, comes in? If 8 you can do that. Do you have that side 9 elevation that you gave us in a packet last 10 time? 11 MR. CHAWNEY: No, I don't 12 think I do, actually. 13 (Copy was given to Mr. 14 Chawney.) 15 MS. GRAY: Could you show 16 me where- MR. CHAWNEY: 17 (Interposing) Where the road is? 18 MS. GRAY: Yeah. Where, 19 yeah, the road is. Nine Mile Road. 20 Because I know it sits in a saucer. 21 MR. CHAWNEY: Well this 22 grade right here (indicating) is 23 approximately five feet -- or four feet 24 under the grade of Novi Road. 20
1 MS. GRAY: Where? 2 MR. CHAWNEY: Four feet 3 under Novi -- excuse me, Nine Mile Road. 4 It would be like this. And it slopes 5 backwards from Nine Mile to the creek, the 6 property. 7 MS. GRAY: And is that 8 corner towards the creek or towards Nine 9 Mile Road? I'm presuming the garage is 10 towards Nine Mile. 11 MR. CHAWNEY: Yes. The 12 garage is towards Nine Mile, but the house 13 is on a 45, but the garage corner is on the 14 Nine Mile side of the road. 15 MS. GRAY: So when you 16 drive into your property to go to your 17 garage, you're actually going to be going 18 downhill a little bit to get to the garage? 19 MR. CHAWNEY: Correct. 20 MS. GRAY: I guess I need 21 to know again what the hardship is for the 22 three-story versus two or two and a half 23 story. 24 MR. CHAWNEY: Well, the 21
1 hardship is the third story is a storage 2 attic, and in a floodplain you're not 3 allowed to store anything at the floodplain 4 level. It has to be raised up. On the 5 lowest level, the only thing you're allowed 6 on a floodplain is a garage and an entryway 7 itself, and that's what I've designed. And 8 then any storage I have is going to be up 9 on the top area. 10 MS. GRAY: Thank you. 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Any 12 Board members? 13 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 14 Chairman, as I see it here, we're dealing 15 strictly with the shape of the building 16 that's causing it to be classified or used 17 as three-story. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: That's 19 correct. 20 MEMBER REINKE: And as far 21 as the water handling and everything, it's 22 a buildable lot, and I don't really see 23 where that issue comes before us, because 24 that's going to have to be handled by the 22
1 City and by the City engineers, that he 2 doesn't cause excess runoff or change the 3 water flow in the neighborhood. That will 4 be a responsibility between him and the 5 City engineers to deal with that issue, so 6 I don't think that's really something we 7 should even consider before us in this 8 case. 9 And as far as just for the 10 semantics of being called a three-story 11 home, I really don't have a problem with 12 it. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Any 14 other Board member comments? 15 MS. GRONACHAN: I concur 16 with the previous two speakers. Keeping 17 focus that this is in a floodplain. If it 18 wasn't in a floodplain, the lower level 19 would be useful. It would be able to be 20 used for storage, and therefore I think 21 that because of the lot location and the 22 designation of the property, that basically 23 dictates how this house can be built. 24 Again, if it's two stories 23
1 or three stories, we don't have any control 2 over the water. So I concur with the two 3 previous speakers, and will wait to hear 4 from any other Board members. 5 MEMBER GATT: I also concur. 6 But on behalf of the homeowner who 7 appeared and is, you know, worried about 8 the water flow, again, that's another 9 matter. It's another Board, it's another 10 Engineering Department problem, and I would 11 urge you to, assuming this Board approves 12 this tonight, to pursue that with them. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Bob, you 14 stole my thunder. I wanted to let the 15 homeowner -- are you Ms. King? 16 MS. KING: Yes. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I don't 18 want you to think that we've ignored you. 19 Your concern is not something though that 20 we can address as a Board. We're task -- 21 excuse me. We're tasked with what has been 22 presented before us, which is an 23 interpretation of the height of this 24 building. And that's what we have to deal 24
1 with tonight. You'll have plenty of 2 opportunity as this moves along -- and this 3 is going to be a tough, tough, piece of 4 property to build on. You're building in a 5 swamp, man. It's no wonder you've got it 6 on stilts. 7 But you'll have an 8 opportunity to review with other Boards as 9 this project moves through the City. 10 Any other comments? 11 MR. REED: Mr. Chairman? 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yeah. 13 MR. REED: My objective 14 viewpoint of it would be also, especially 15 from the height standpoint, given the fact 16 that from the road the property, as he 17 said, is actually, you know, about five 18 feet lower than the road surface and 19 especially since he didn't abuse the height 20 of each level. I know if it was me, I 21 would probably actually want to have 22 ten-foot ceilings in the shelter area, and 23 ten-foot ceilings in the bedrooms, and 24 ten-foot ceilings in the storage. I'd 25
1 probably get it right at 35 feet, which 2 would be a little more overbearing, 3 especially without the roof pitches. And 4 obviously he didn't do that, he's sticking 5 to the eight feet requirement. 6 And, of course, you know, if 7 it was a conventional architecture and you 8 had a peaked roof right at 35 feet, it 9 certainly would be more conventional. But 10 I don't think you abused the height that 11 you were allotted actually due to the fact 12 you're below that. And the fact that it's 13 sunken below the road level, which is why 14 he has this issue actually, but also from 15 the street it's not going to be such a 16 prominent structure, I guess. From the 17 street, you won't even maybe perceive the 18 third story. That's all I have to say. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 20 Maybe we're close to somebody putting our 21 thoughts together in a motion. 22 MS. GRAY: I just want to 23 assure the neighbors that we're not 24 insensitive to their concerns. It's not 26
1 under our jurisdiction. 2 That having been said, in the matter 3 of Case 03-005, I would move that we grant 4 the petitioner's variance based on the fact 5 that the physical characteristics of the 6 lot, as far as topography goes presents a 7 hardship, in addition to building in a 8 floodplain, and that precludes storage at 9 the basement level or a lower level, and 10 must go to the upper level, and urge him to 11 keep working with his neighbors too. 12 13 MEMBER REINKE: Support. 14 MR. SAVEN: Discussion, Mr. 15 Chairman. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 17 MR. SAVEN: I would prefer 18 that this issue not address any issues 19 regarding the floodplain. This is strictly 20 the height variance that we're dealing with 21 in this matter. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: So noted. 23 Tom? 24 MR. SAVEN: Excuse me, the 27
1 story variance. 2 MR. SCHULTZ: I guess, as I 3 understood the maker of the motion, one of 4 the reasons that Member Gray thought that 5 the variance was justified is because of 6 the storage issue, which relates back, I 7 guess, to the floodplain. So as framed and 8 with that explanation, I thought that was 9 appropriate. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 11 you. 12 MR. SAVEN: I stand 13 corrected. 14 MR. SCHULTZ: It wasn't a 15 correcting. 16 It was a clarification. 17 MR. SAVEN: I just want to 18 be sure that's all. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Any 20 other discussion on the motion? 21 (No discussion by the 22 Board.) 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Gray? 28
1 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 2 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 3 Reinke? 4 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 5 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 6 Bauer? 7 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 9 Brennan? 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 11 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 12 Gatt? 13 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 14 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 15 Gronachan? 16 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 18 right, sir. You have your variance request 19 and now you can proceed on. 20 MR. CHAWNEY: Thank you 21 very much for your time. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sure. 23 CASE NO. 03-011 - KURT DICKMANN 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 29
1 right. We're going to call the next case. 2 Mr. Dickmann, Kurt Dickmann? Come on 3 down. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Mr. 5 Dickmann lives in Roma Ridge and is looking 6 for a rear yard setback variance for 7 construction of an addition. 8 MR. DICKMANN: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You 10 want to raise your hand and be sworn. 11 MS. GRONACHAN: Do you swear 12 or affirm that the information that you're 13 about to give in the matter before you is 14 the truth? 15 MR. DICKMANN: I do. 16 MS. GRONACHAN: Thank you. 17 MR. DICKMANN: Good 18 evening. In requesting this variance, I'd 19 like to point out a few things. The first 20 being our house is unique in that it has a 21 side entry garage, one of two on the street 22 that does so. And that tends to -- well, 23 it sets the house back further on the lot. 24 So the actual setback line goes within two 30
1 feet of the rear of my home. It's also one 2 of the smaller units in the sub, so we're 3 definitely in need of the additional room. 4 There is an existing 5 deck structure which will be removed, and 6 that actually sits approximately five feet 7 off the ground right now. And the 8 footprint of this addition will be well 9 within size of the current deck footprint. 10 So it will take up a smaller area of the 11 current structure. On the 12 same property line in which the variance is 13 being requested on Cider Mill, there's been 14 a variance requested, I'm not sure how long 15 ago that was, but I know there is an 16 addition being built down the property line 17 aways. 18 There are no houses 19 directly behind my lot. It's a wooded 20 area, and I have canvassed the area. I've 21 gone door to door and have spoke with each 22 of my neighbors, and got a signed 23 affidavit, which you should have a copy of, 24 and they're in agreement with this, so. 31
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sir, you 2 did a nice job. 3 There were 26 notices sent. 4 There is a petition here with nine 5 signatures approving. There's also 6 subdivision approval. 7 Anyone in the audience care 8 to comment on this gentleman's plans to put 9 an addition on his house? 10 (No response from the 11 audience.) 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 13 Department? 14 MR. SAVEN: Just so it's 15 not confused, that was nine-foot-six to the 16 ten-foot easement that he was playing out 17 on his plot plan. In other words, he does 18 have 19-foot-six to the lot line. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 20 members? 21 (No response from the 22 Board.) 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I want 24 to do something for anyone who might be 32
1 watching T.V. tonight. But here's what 2 this gentleman did, he put together a nice 3 little summary of what his interests were, 4 walked around the subdivision and got his 5 neighbors' signatures. It makes our life a 6 little easier when all this has been done 7 up front. 8 Thank you. Doesn't mean 9 you're going to get it. 10 MR. BAUER: Mr. Chairman. 11 In case number 03-011, I request a 12 variance be granted to the lot size and 13 that this backs up to a wooded area. 14 MEMBER REINKE: Support. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have 16 a motion and support. Any discussion? 17 (No response from the 18 Board.) 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah, 20 please. MS. MARCHIONI: 21 Member Bauer? 22 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 23 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 24 Reinke? 33
1 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 2 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 3 Brennan? CHAIRMAN 4 BRENNAN: Yes. 5 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 6 Gatt? 7 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 9 Gray? 10 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 11 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 12 Gronachan? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You have 15 your variance. See the Building 16 Department. 17 MR. DICKMANN: Thank you 18 very much. 19 CASE NO. 03-012 - STEPHEN DONOHUE 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 21 right. Is 22 Mr. Donohue on his way? Stephen Donohue, 23 24379 Glenda. He's looking for a number of 24 variances for construction of a garage. Is 34
1 that correct? 2 MR. DONOHUE: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You want 4 to raise your right hand and be sworn, 5 please? 6 MS. GRONACHAN: Do you 7 swear or affirm that the information you're 8 about to give in the matter before you is 9 the truth? 10 MR. DONOHUE: I do. 11 MS. GRONACHAN: Thank you. 12 MR. DONOHUE: Good evening. 13 Once again, my name is Steve Donohue and 14 we've lived at 15 24379 Glenda for just about 12 years now. 16 And the reason I'm here is my family is 17 getting a little larger, our family room of 18 11 by 16 is no longer adequate. And what 19 I'm hoping to do is convert my side entry 20 garage into additional family room space, 21 and then add on an attached garage at the 22 end of the driveway and this change would 23 require requested variances. 24 I considered another option 35
1 of going off the back of the home, but the 2 roof line and the floor plan doesn't really 3 lend themselves well to this option. 4 There's a little dining nook that kind of 5 has a bay window off the back, and that 6 window would look at the wall of the 7 addition. It would extend out the rear of 8 the home. 9 I wanted to add on 24 feet 10 into the driveway. I was trying to hit the 11 current driveway location. It's still 12 about two feet short, but I was trying to 13 keep the variance request to a minimum. 14 I'm going to have to add about two feet to 15 the north side of the driveway. 16 As it stands right now -- 17 and I've got pictures -- there's a pine 18 tree that I will have to take down. That 19 tree isn't a problem for me, but I have a 20 couple of birch trees out in front of our 21 home and by adding two feet, I'm kind of 22 getting underneath the canopy of the birch 23 trees. So I really don't want to damage 24 those trees if I can avoid it, so that's 36
1 why I was trying to get out 24 feet. That 2 pretty much sums it up. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Good. 4 Thank you. 5 There were 33 notices sent, 6 two approvals, and it looks like they're 7 both neighbors, very close to you. Mr. 8 Payne? 9 MR. DONOHUE: Yes. He's on 10 the side that's most affected. 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: And the 12 Fennellys. 13 MR. DONOHUE: Correct. 14 They're on the other side. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Anyone in 16 the audience that wishes to talk about this 17 case? 18 (No response from the 19 audience.) 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 21 Building Department? 22 MR. SAVEN: Mr. Chairman, 23 I'll point out the third additional 24 variance was based upon the fact it was an 37
1 existing condition, and that would be over 2 on the north side of the house, where if 3 you look at the plot plan, there is no 4 change on that side of the house, but just 5 for the fact that it was the sum total of 6 the aggregate area, we brought that before 7 the Board to clean up everything. 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 9 Board members? 10 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 11 Chairman, it looks like a lot but as Mr. 12 Saven says in pointing it out, it's really 13 dealing only with the one side where he's 14 proposing the garage. And I think he's 15 tried to fit in and do as minimum intrusion 16 that he can get by with. I can support 17 the petitioner's request. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. Chairman? 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: That big 21 tree is going to go, did you say? 22 MR. DONOHUE: Yes. It's 23 almost too big now. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yeah. I 38
1 drove out there and my first concern -- two 2 concerns that I had was one, why not the 3 backyard. And then when I looked at it, I 4 understood why not the backyard. And the 5 neighbor, Mr. Payne. That was my major 6 concern. I don't see anyplace else to be 7 able to do this. And again, your lot is 8 really not conducive to -- you're going to 9 have to do some back-filling in the 10 backyard it almost looks like, because it 11 drops quite a bit. 12 So based on that, I concur 13 with the previous speaker and could also 14 support this. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I didn't 16 read it into the record, but one of the 17 issues that Mr. Payne raised is because the 18 garage is going to be reoriented, he 19 expects that the morning, getting up and 20 going, will be a little quieter because he 21 won't have the garage right at his bedroom 22 window, it's going to be facing the 23 street. 24 Any other comments? 39
1 MEMBER GRAY: I was 2 concerned too when I looked at it. I 3 didn't even take the fact that there was an 4 existing condition with the other property 5 line into too much consideration because of 6 the change in the setbacks. But I was 7 mostly concerned with why not put it in the 8 back, or why not put it in the front, 9 because of the neighbor to the south. But 10 if he's in support of it, I have no problem 11 with it. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Very 13 good. Let's move forward and hear a 14 motion. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I'll make 16 a motion. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 18 Cindy, please? 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In Case 20 03-012, i move that we move the request for 21 the three variances based on the lot size 22 and shape, and also the topography of the 23 actual ground in the back of the house. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Second the 40
1 motion. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 3 We've got a motion and a second. Any 4 discussion? 5 (No discussion by the 6 Board.) 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 8 Sarah? 9 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 10 Gronachan? MEMBER 11 GRONACHAN: Yes. 12 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 13 Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 16 Brennan? 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 18 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 19 Gatt? 20 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Gray? 23 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 41
1 Reinke? 2 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 4 You've got your variance. See the Building 5 Department for your permit. 6 CASE NO. 03-013 - LAURA WATT 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Laura 8 Watt, 9 2219 Austin. Laura also wants to build a 10 garage. 11 MS. WATT: Yes. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Who 13 would think that you would want to put a 14 car in a garage. I haven't had a car in a 15 garage in 25 years. 16 MS. WATT: Good evening. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You want 18 to raise your hand and be sworn, please. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 20 swear or affirm that the information you're 21 about to give in the matter before you is 22 the truth? 23 MS. WATT: Yes, we do. 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 42
1 you. 2 MS. WATT: We have 3 purchased this home late November, and 4 we're asking for a 13 by 4 variance to put 5 an attached garage on. You know, we would 6 like to not have the home look the way it 7 was, where items are sitting outside, we 8 want everything to be stored. We want the 9 appearance of the home in the neighborhood 10 to be beautiful, the way it should be. We 11 have looked at the back. There is -- and 12 we're on a double lot as you can see by our 13 plot plan. There's really no better spot 14 to put it than the front. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 16 Well, we're going to discuss that. 17 MS. WATT: Okay. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There 19 were 37 notices sent. You had three 20 approvals. Mr. Mark Robbins on Austin. 21 MS. WATT: He has the two 22 homes next to us. 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Mary 24 McDermott and Eric Stone, all neighbors on 43
1 Austin. 2 Anybody in the audience care 3 to talk to us about this case? 4 (No response from the 5 audience.) 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 7 Department? 8 MR. SAVEN: No comment, sir. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 10 Board? 11 MEMBER GRAY: Well, I'll 12 start it off, if I may. 13 The reason for putting the 14 garage in the front yard is, what; what is 15 the hardship. MS. 16 WATT: Well, first of all, we don't have a 17 garage. We have no place for storage. 18 We're on a crawl. So, I mean, we could 19 store some things, but you can't -- I can't 20 store any kind of lawn and yard equipment, 21 things of that nature. 22 MS. GRAY: Why not the 23 backyard? 24 MS. WATT: It's very close 44
1 to the side property line to even get back 2 there, to put a garage back there. I'm 3 sorry if I'm misunderstanding the question 4 there. 5 MS. GRAY: I understand 6 there's about 13 to 15 feet to the south, 7 between the south side of the house and 8 the property line. And then there's quite 9 a bit of depth in the backyard. 53 feet of 10 depth in the backyard. 11 My main concern is the road 12 right-of-way at that site. Where you're 13 proposing the put the garage, the road 14 right-of-way is 60 feet there. 15 MS. WATT: Okay. 16 MS. GRAY: So the City owns 17 60 feet. Where all those rocks are piled 18 in your front yard, whatever they were 19 there for, for planting or something, those 20 are all in the road right-of-way. So did 21 you have a stake survey when you bought the 22 property, or just a mortgage survey -- 23 probably just a mortgage survey. 24 MS. WATT: It's just the 45
1 mortgage survey that we got. 2 MS. GRAY: If we grant this 3 variance and you have -- you're only 13.4 4 feet from the road as opposed to 30 feet. 5 MS. WATT: 16 feet. 6 MS. GRAY: If you're 16 7 feet from the road right-of-way, at some 8 point in time all these roads are going to 9 be paved up in that area. I presume you've 10 got a poured driveway. If you're going to 11 have people park in your driveway in your 12 front yard, the 16 feet isn't going to be 13 enough to keep part of those vehicles off 14 the road right-of-way. So that's the 15 problem, as far as I'm concerned. Okay. 16 I think that there's enough 17 room in the backyard to put an attached 18 garage back there. I don't know what the 19 inside configuration of the house is, where 20 the kitchen is, whatever. I think there's 21 enough room on the side, the south side, 22 between the south side of your house and 23 the fence, to get into your yard. 24 Mr. Saven, is it ten feet 46
1 for a driveway, eight to ten feet for a 2 drive? 3 MR. SAVEN: It would be 4 approximately ten feet for the driveway, 5 but you've got three foot for natural 6 drainage. 7 MEMBER GRAY: So you'd 8 probably have just about enough room, to 9 put the drive on the south side of the 10 house between the house and the fence, and 11 put your garage in the backyard. And I 12 understand storage because I live in the 13 area and I've got a crawl, and I've got a 14 shed. So I certainly do understand the 15 problems presented, but I'm real concerned 16 with where you're proposing to put it, 17 simply because the road right-of-way right 18 there at that point is 60 feet, and I don't 19 know if you were aware of that when you 20 bought it. 21 MS. WATT: No. 22 MS. GRAY: So I think you 23 need to take another look at it, and that's 24 just my suggestion. 47
1 MS. WATT: Thank you. 2 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 3 Chairman, I concur with Ms. Gray because 4 one of the problems we have up there, is we 5 have nothing there now and if we put 6 something there, we got something more on 7 top of the road which is congesting, and 8 it's an unsafe situation. And I think that 9 we really need to -- the petitioner really 10 needs to take a look at why it couldn't be 11 put in the backyard. 12 MS. WATT: May I just ask 13 one question? I'm sorry. So if I did a 14 garage in the back, and put this driveway 15 right along the property line, now how far 16 away from the property line must I be, 17 because that would be proposing where 18 people would be parking. 19 MR. SAVEN: I need to know 20 whether it's detached or attached. Is the 21 garage -- will the garage be attached or 22 detached? 23 MS. WATT: Well, I mean, 24 that would have to change everything. Our 48
1 kitchen is in the back. Our kitchen and 2 bedroom, everything is back there. 3 MR. SAVEN: That's what I'm 4 trying to get across. It all would depend 5 on what your needs are, what you need to 6 do. 7 MS. WATT: Yes. 8 MEMBER GRAY: Would it be 9 more appropriate to suggest that the 10 petitioner talk to the Building Department 11 to see if she wants to see what her options 12 are at this point, or pursue it, or- 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: It sounds 14 like maybe you haven't given any thought to 15 putting it in the backyard. Is that safe 16 to assume? 17 MS. WATT: Well, I would 18 like to come in and have -- my proposal 19 would be to come in into a foyer. That's 20 why I wanted an attached garage, so I could 21 come right into the foyer. You know, 22 that's where the living room and the foyer 23 is, right there. So I really hadn't 24 thought of any other way. I hadn't thought 49
1 of putting a garage in the back. 2 Obviously, it wouldn't be an attached 3 garage. My kitchen and bedroom is back 4 there. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: How 6 would you like to do this: Would you like 7 to give it some further thought, discuss it 8 with the Building Department, and we'll put 9 this, you know, in a hold pattern. If you 10 come up with something that's different, 11 like in the backyard, that doesn't require 12 any variance, then we can just drop the 13 case. If it looks like that there is 14 nothing that's going to work, and this is 15 the only thing that you can have, we'll 16 bring you back. 17 MS. WATT: So my backyard 18 variance is 35, if I remember? 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: From the 20 property line. 21 MR. SAVEN: If it's 22 attached, it will be the 35-foot 23 requirement, and it will be required to be 24 a minimum of a 13-foot setback from the 50
1 side property line. Now, if you had a side 2 entrance to this thing, now we're talking 3 about 25-foot back. That's perpendicular 4 to the side property line, which is 22-foot 5 for hard surface parking, and three-foot 6 for natural drainage. 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I just 8 don't want to go far enough tonight that we 9 turn you down and not give you any options. 10 There's not -- there's a couple of 11 people -- not everyone has talked or given 12 an opinion, but there's an impression that 13 the garage in the front may not be the best 14 idea, and if you would like to at least 15 look at the option of putting it in the 16 back and come into the Building Department, 17 and talk about what you can and can't do. 18 MS. WATT: And who would I 19 talk to? 20 MR. SAVEN: You talk to me, 21 the big guy. 22 MS. WATT: I mean, that 23 sounds like I don't have an option. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, 51
1 we're just suggesting that maybe you should 2 pursue and look at this option. Like I 3 said, you may decide for whatever reason, 4 and it's your right, you can come back to 5 us and say this is the only place it can 6 go, this is what I want, and have us deal 7 with it. MS. WATT: 8 Okay. 9 MR. SAVEN: Laura, if I 10 may. MEMBER GRAY: 11 Oh, I'm sorry. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yeah, 13 please. Help. 14 MEMBER GRAY: I also wanted 15 to mention to you that when the city water 16 went in, there were extensive surveys done 17 in the area within the last three years. 18 So you may want to get with the DPW and 19 find out where the exact right-of-way lines 20 are there. I don't know what, if anything, 21 is going to be done about all those 22 boulders and stuff that are in the road 23 right-of-way, you know, but they are in the 24 road. So you need to know where your exact 52
1 property line is. And at some point there 2 should be some kind of flag out there still 3 from when the water went in and you might 4 be able to find the exact. Because 60 feet 5 is quite different from what's existing. 6 MS. WATT: Okay. 7 MEMBER GRAY: Okay? And 8 it's just a suggestion. I'm trying to keep 9 you from some heartache of trying to put 10 this in and just not being able to do it 11 fully, as you thought. 12 MS. WATT: Thank you. 13 MR. REED: Mr. Chairman, 14 could I make one comment? 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sure. 16 MR. REED: My -- I'm very 17 new to this Board, but my understanding of 18 what we can do as far as granting a 19 variance is if it's going to be a proven 20 hardship. And I think that's what I'm 21 gathering here, is that you could come back 22 and say there's these reasons why the rear 23 lot is not appropriate for a garage. A 24 combination of a study of where you can't 53
1 be, could be part of it. Which, if you do 2 a rear lot offset of 35 feet, actually 3 you're going to be able not to fit the same 4 size garage you have shown here. 5 So the possibility then, 6 you might say, who builds a single car 7 garage anymore? That could be a little bit 8 of a hardship. Or the fact that you've 9 have windows in the back of the house and 10 that's where your kitchen is and that's 11 where everything is, so that's an issue why 12 you couldn't have an attached garage. So 13 maybe you'd have to go with a detached 14 garage. So then you'd have to look at the 15 other requirements for a detached garage. 16 So given the fact that 17 you've got room next to the house, you 18 could put a driveway in. It's hard to 19 prove hardship there, unless there's a 20 reason for it. Maybe there's a 21 hundred-year-old tree right there, and that 22 would be a reason for a hardship. 23 I'm also a little bit concerned 24 about being so close to the street, and 54
1 all these other reasons I think are good. 2 But maybe if you approach it trying to 3 prove out your hardship case a little 4 better- 5 MS. WATT: I understand. 6 MR. REED: (Continuing) 7 -with the Building Department's help, then 8 you have a lot more ammunition. 9 MS. WATT: I certainly 10 understand. 11 MR. SAVEN: Just one 12 issue. On your existing house, if you had 13 a floor plan of your existing house when 14 we did talk, we'll know where all your 15 rooms are located and how they'll interplay 16 with the building codes in relationship to 17 the attached garage. 18 MS. WATT: And so do I 19 assume that I will automatically, after I 20 talk to the Building Department, after I 21 speak with you, I'm on for next month? 22 MR. SAVEN: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We've not 24 moved on your case tonight. We'd like you 55
1 to look at some options and come back. 2 MS. WATT: Okay. I 3 appreciate your time. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 5 you, Laura. 6 MEMBER BAUER: Maybe a 7 motion to table? 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Let's 9 make a motion to table, please. 10 MEMBER BAUER: I'll make a 11 motion to table until the next meeting. 12 MEMBER GATT: Support. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have 14 a motion and support. 15 Sarah, please. 16 MS. MARCHIONI: Jerry called 17 it? 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Jerry 19 called it and a gaggle of people supported 20 it. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Bauer? 23 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 56
1 Brennan? 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 3 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 4 Gatt? 5 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 6 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 7 Gray? 8 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 9 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 10 Gronachan? MEMBER 11 GRONACHAN: Yes. 12 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 13 Reinke? 14 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 15 16 CASE NO. 03-014 - JOHN JOSEPH SANDS 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 18 Mr. Sands 19 are you here? 20 John Joseph Sands of 22800 21 Napier Road wants to build a monster 22 barn. 23 MR. SANDS: John Sands, 24 22800 Napier Road. 57
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Do you 2 want to raise your hand and be sworn, 3 please. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 5 swear or affirm that the information you're 6 about to give in the matter before you is 7 the truth? 8 MR. SANDS: Yes, I do. 9 MEMBER CRONACHAN: Thank 10 you. 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Go ahead. 12 MR. SANDS: I've been a 13 resident there on Napier Road since 1987, 14 when I got the farm from grandparents or 15 bought the farm from my grandmother, Hilda 16 Sands and my grandfather, Joseph Sands. 17 They bought the farm in 1945, so we've 18 been there about 58 years now. 19 The old barn that was on the 20 property came into disrepair and that, in 21 about 1990. It had been there since 1900. 22 I didn't want to construct a new barn in 23 the same location so I let it go until, you 24 know, this being a better time. And I 58
1 thought I'd move it further back into the 2 property where it would be more suitable 3 for a barn or a large size building. 4 I see that this ordinance 5 takes in effect the existing garage, which 6 is the one-car garage that was put there 7 about 1970. And the way things are these 8 days, that garage may not be there in five 9 or seven years, you know. If I modernize 10 the house, a one-car garage really don't 11 serve as much purpose as they used to, and 12 it was sort of added on. 13 So I would appreciate this 14 variance for this size building. If 15 there's anything else I can tell you, I'd 16 appreciate it. It's for storing boats and 17 antique automobiles and things like a 18 workshop maybe. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We'll 20 talk about it. 21 There were six notices sent 22 and you had a pretty strong objection. Do 23 you know your neighbors, the Broadleys? 24 MR. SANDS: I hadn't had a 59
1 chance to meet them yet. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You're 3 going to meet them real quick, I think. 4 One objection. No approvals. 5 Anyone in the audience care 6 to speak to us? 7 (No response from the 8 audience.) 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Are the 10 Broadleys here? No? Let me read their 11 letter. 12 Our objection to the 13 requested variance, we own the 9. acres to 14 the north, and we believe that current 15 zoning restrictions should apply. A 16 3200-square foot building is larger than 17 most of the houses currently in the area. 18 It would not be in keeping with homes that 19 would most likely be constructed on 20 surrounding acreage. Why is such a large 21 structure needed: a home business, question 22 mark. 23 And I think you just said 24 no, this is for boats and farm equipment 60
1 and other. 2 Building Department? 3 MR. SAVEN: Just to point 4 out with what Mr. Sands had indicated 5 earlier, I did include the accessory 6 structure which is on his property in the 7 tabulated area for this variance. 8 In other words, he has 9 352-square foot of an existing garage, 10 which was included in that size because of 11 the sum total of all accessory buildings on 12 the property. 13 MR. SANDS: I do have an 14 aerial photo of the property, if you'd 15 like. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I'm 17 trying to get the feel where the Broadleys 18 are with respect to where this barn 19 location is. Do you know where their home 20 is? 21 MR. SANDS: Yes. They have 22 the ten empty acres on the front, on the 23 road. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: On 61
1 Napier. 2 MR. SANDS: On Napier Road, 3 immediately north of me. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Just my 5 own comments. My observation was, at least 6 from Napier, your property is elevated, 7 rough guess, four to six feet it's elevated 8 up from the level of the road. And it's 9 heavily wooded. And my best guess -- I 10 didn't pull into your property, I didn't 11 know if you had dogs or other varmints -- 12 but just based on my observation of the 13 location of the barn, it looks to be 14 somewhere about 500-foot deep into the 15 property. Not knowing who's on the east 16 side of the property, and obviously- 17 MR. SANDS: Mr. Aaron 18 Zollar. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: And does 20 he know -- would -- well, I could 21 probably- 22 MR. SANDS: He has 110 23 acres. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I wonder 62
1 if he was notified. Yes, he was. Okay. 2 So Mr. Zollar was notified, 3 the homeowner to the east -- the property 4 owner to the east. Other than shear size, 5 which we talked about, I didn't have any 6 complaint or anything that knocked me over. 7 8 Other Board members? 9 MEMBER GATT: Can you tell 10 me again what you're going to use this barn 11 for? 12 MR. SANDS: Yes. First, 13 let me say I set it up narrow-ways in my 14 mind on the lot, so you see the smaller 15 view from the road. You know, you see the 16 narrow end from the road. And I made it so 17 I could drive two lanes or boats, you know, 18 pull my boat, and my mother has a boat, 19 straight in from one side and out the other 20 side. And then it still leaves some room 21 for my antiques or a tractor. 22 MEMBER GATT: Do you own 23 antique cars now? 24 MR. SANDS: I have 1955 63
1 Buick Special, and one -- my grandfather 2 has one and my uncle has two. 3 MEMBER GATT: Is it your 4 intention to rent the space out to other 5 people to store boats or cars or anything? 6 MR. SANDS: Well, you can't 7 say that you're never going to do something 8 with it. You know, if I built decks on the 9 side as a side line, and I might be storing 10 wood in there, but I do have a career with 11 General Motors that keeps me very busy and 12 I'm more than likely skilled trade with 13 them shortly. I've already been with 14 General Motors for 24 years now. 15 And my neighbors, the 16 Broadleys, they should understand and be 17 assured that having met my grandparents, 18 that I also intend to own this property for 19 as much as my life as I'm able to. I've 20 owned it 15 years already and, you know, 21 how many houses does a guy need? I'm not 22 going to turn it into a subdivision, so 23 they really don't have to worry about too 24 many buildings, you know. 64
1 MEMBER GATT: But you don't 2 intend to run a business out of that barn? 3 4 MR. SANDS: In your spare 5 time you make a couple of bucks doing 6 carpentry, you know. If you do it off your 7 front porch, it's a little more congested, 8 you know, than if you do it off your 9 garage. But for the most part, you know, 10 just to buy a new vehicle, to buy a tractor 11 or something, I have nowhere to put it. 12 I've thought of buying a truck these days, 13 I have no garage for it. 14 MEMBER GATT: You can by a 15 semi and put it in this one. 16 MR. SANDS: And that was a 17 problem, you know, it does take up -- the 18 old antique cars, once you get them inside 19 of something, the building gets awful small 20 and if you don't have power steering or 21 things like that. 22 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. Sands, 23 is there any reason that building couldn't 24 be somewhat smaller than 40 by 80? 65
1 MR. SANDS: It could be 2 eight-foot shorter, and then more than 3 likely, you know, you could end up 4 disappointed later on that you did make it 5 eight-foot shorter. 6 MEMBER REINKE: I understand 7 that. 8 MR. SANDS: It is very 9 possible, like you say. 10 MEMBER REINKE: Rear 11 requirements. I understand your need for a 12 building. My question is does it really 13 justify that size of building? To me, I 14 think a smaller building would suffice for 15 what you want, which would mean then less 16 of a variance would be required, which I 17 could more support than what you're 18 requesting right here before us. 19 MR. SANDS: Yes, sir. I'm 20 always prepared to be flexible and hear 21 what you have to say. 22 I do have a photo of our 23 previous barn, if you'd like to see that. 24 I don't know if any of that has bearing, 66
1 but the neighbors, you know, I'm hoping 2 that they will be comfortable in knowing 3 that, you know, one house at a time is 4 enough for me to be owning these days, you 5 know. 20 years, it might be different and 6 I might want a second house, but either 7 way, it's still ten acres and it's not 8 going to have -- well, until I'm gone, no 9 one else is going to own it. 10 MEMBER GRAY: When I 11 originally looked at this proposal -- and I 12 understand the need for barns, and just the 13 very nature of the property is zoned RA, 14 tells me it's residential agricultural. 15 And I thought that's going to be a heck of 16 lot of horses out there. But it's not 17 going to be used for horses at all. 18 I'm very concerned with the 19 size of this. We allow up to 2500 square 20 feet, which is a very large size in that 21 area. And I'm sure that there are barns on 22 the west side of the city that are larger, 23 and I'm sure there's many that are 24 smaller. I'm also not 67
1 comfortable with the fact that when Member 2 Gatt has asked you now twice, are you going 3 to run a business out of there, you haven't 4 given him a clear yes or no answer. I 5 understand that you say you're not going to 6 do it now, but that means we're going to 7 have problems in the future. I understand 8 storing boats and autos and shop use, but I 9 think 3200 square feet is way too large, 10 when our ordinance says that you can have 11 2500. Understanding, too, that what you 12 have there now may not be there within 13 seven years, as you just said. The one-car 14 garage. 15 MR. SANDS: Well, I can't 16 really run a business out there as far as 17 General Motors keeps me busy more hours in 18 a week than I care to keep busy already. I 19 might do carpentry to make a thousand or 20 $2000 a year, it's not a driving concern. 21 And I'm not going to -- I mean, I'm not 22 going to turn it into a heavy truck repair 23 shop or anything like that. 24 MEMBER GRAY: So would it 68
1 be fair to say that it is not your intent 2 to run a business out of this barn at this 3 time; is that fair? 4 MR. SANDS: Yes, it is. 5 MEMBER GRAY: Okay. 6 Mr. Gatt, does that 7 somewhat answer your question? 8 MEMBER GATT: It somewhat 9 answers my question. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I just 11 did some quick math. If this barn was 12 scaled down to a 40 by 60, and including 13 the existing structure, he would need a 14 variance request of 252 square feet, which 15 backs it down roughly 20, 30 percent. 16 Is that a barn size you 17 could live with, 40 by 60? 18 MR. SANDS: No. The 19 problem, I want two drive through boats -- 20 or two drive through lanes at the east 21 end. It would take 12, 24 -- 28 feet of 22 the feet up right off the bat right there. 23 Okay? So -- and then I thought I could 24 park cars in the other end. But you can't 69
1 really pull them in and jockey them around. 2 3 MEMBER GRAY: You might have 4 to put more doors on to accomplish that. 5 MRS. SANDS: Right. I 6 could live with, say, 72 foot. 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, 8 you've indicated that you're willing to 9 talk to us about minimizing the variance 10 request, and what I propose is minimizing, 11 scale it down to 252 square feet. 12 I mean, you've got a couple 13 of choices here. You can either -- if that 14 doesn't appeal to you, we can have further 15 discussions, or we can vote or your 16 variance request. I think that you've got 17 some feel that there is a concern that what 18 you have proposed is too large. It's a 19 substantial variance request, and your 20 immediate neighbor has voiced an opinion. 21 MR. SANDS: Yes. I'm sorry 22 I haven't been able to contact them because 23 they do have an unlisted phone number. And 24 I have wanted to contact them before to, 70
1 you know, to say hi, and let them know I 2 thought they brought a really lovely piece 3 of property. They do live in South Lyon. 4 I didn't want to just run right over there 5 and, you know, on one day's notice to say, 6 to explain exactly what I'm doing, and you 7 know, what they could or could not expect. 8 But I think they will be glad to know that 9 I'm not planning on subdividing or 10 anything, and I do intend to keep as much 11 of the farm as open farmland as I can for 12 the next 40 years. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 14 members? MEMBER GATT: 15 Mr. Sands, just my own personal opinion. 16 This Board addresses hardships, and you 17 haven't convinced me that by reducing the 18 size of the barn would be a terrible 19 hardship for you. I just don't see the 20 difference between a 40 by 80 versus the 40 21 by 60 that our Chairman presented that 22 would cause a hardship for you. So I can't 23 support this. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We're at 71
1 a point right now where you've got to start 2 considering some options, because we can 3 continue this discussion and vote on your 4 variance request, and I think you can get a 5 sense of where we're going with that. 6 MR. SANDS: I would like, 7 if you can try to keep the numbers in 8 eighths. I guess, like you know, 40 by 64, 9 that would be an eight-foot section of 10 building material and it's more conducive 11 to understanding each other. 12 MEMBER REINKE: I can live 13 with a 40 by 64. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, we 15 get a lot of nodding with the 40 by 64. 16 Would you like to amend your variance 17 request for a barn? 18 MEMBER GRAY: Actually it 19 would be 40 by 66. 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, 21 let's try this one pass at a time. 22 40 by 64 is what the 23 suggestion was made. You're comfortable 24 with that? 72
1 MR. SANDS: I can make it. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I'd like 3 to hear a motion to that. 4 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 5 Chairman, in 6 Case 03-014, I move that the petitioner's 7 request be modified for a building to be 8 40-foot by 64 feet and no larger. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Second. 10 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Any 12 discussion on that motion? 13 MEMBER GRAY: Tom's got 14 something to say. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Tom's got 16 something to say. 17 MEMBER REINKE: The reason 18 for the building is for storage of antique 19 vehicles, maintenance vehicles for the 20 property, and miscellaneous storage. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: So 22 modified. Any further discussion? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 24 Chairman, would the maker of the motion 73
1 accept a friendly amendment? 2 MEMBER REINKE: No -- go 3 ahead, I'm listening. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: In that 5 no business -- that this building is 6 clearly for no business purposes. 7 MEMBER REINKE: This 8 building is to be for no commercial use. 9 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 10 you. 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 12 right. We have an amended motion and a 13 second. Any further discussion? 14 (No discussion by the 15 Board.) 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: If not, 17 we'll call the vote. 18 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 19 Reinke? 20 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 74
1 Bauer? 2 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 3 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 4 Brennan? 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 6 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 7 Gatt? 8 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 9 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 10 Gray? 11 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 13 right. You've got a barn. See the 14 Building Department for your necessary 15 permit. 16 MR. SANDS: I thank you for 17 your consideration and your time. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 19 you for working with us. 20 CASE NO. 03-015 - ALBINO CICERONE 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We're 22 going to call another case, 03-015. 23 Albino Cicerone? 24 MR. CICERONE: Yes. 75
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Come on 2 down. 3 Mr. Cicerone wants -- needs what looks to 4 be a fairly modest variance for 5 construction of an enclosure over an 6 existing patio. 7 MR. CICERONE: Yes, sir. 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Want to 9 raise your hand and be sworn. 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 11 swear or affirm that the information you're 12 about to give in the matter before you is 13 the truth? 14 MR. CICERONE: Yes. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 16 you. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Mr. 18 Cicerone, tell us what you want to do. 19 MR. CICERONE: Okay. My 20 name is Albino Cicerone. I live at 45583 21 Irvine Drive, and I want to enclose my 22 existing deck because in the summertime, we 23 got the water in the back, a wetland, a lot 24 of mosquitoes. You can't enjoy the 76
1 backyard in the summertime. That's the 2 only reason. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 4 Well, sir, if you've followed our meetings, 5 you're in good company. There's lots of 6 people in the City of Novi that have to 7 deal with mosquitoes and freestanding 8 swamps. 9 Okay. There were six 10 notices sent -- sorry, wrong case. 11 There were 22 notices sent. 12 We have three approvals and two 13 objections. The approvals are from Mr. 14 Failing, from the Singles, and Herkas. 15 Saddams objected. I don't 16 think they understand exactly what you want 17 to do. They seem to think that you're 18 going to build into a wetland area, but 19 you're simply putting an addition on top of 20 an existing- 21 MR. CICERONE: 22 (Interposing) Yes. On top of an existing 23 deck. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There 77
1 might have been some confusion there. 2 Anybody in the audience? 3 Come on down, sir. Give us 4 your name and address. 5 MR. VERNALI: Good evening. 6 7 Angelo Vernali. Royal Crown Homeowners 8 Association President, and I live at 22836 9 Braden Court. 10 We really don't have a 11 problem with this request. He's enclosing 12 an existing patio that is already the two 13 feet, 2.7 feet, I believe, into the area, 14 and so we really don't have a major issue 15 with it. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 17 Well, thank you for coming down. I'm 18 digging through here looking for the 19 homeowners' letter, that's even better yet. 20 21 Building Department -- oh, 22 I'm sorry. Anybody else in the audience? 23 (No response from the 24 audience.) 78
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 2 Building Department. 3 MR. SAVEN: You are aware, 4 unenclosed decks take on an 18-foot 5 requirement to a rear yard setback. They 6 can go this as long as there's no cover 7 over the deck. Once this becomes covered 8 and enclosed, it has to take on the 35-foot 9 setback requirement. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 11 Board members? 12 MR. GATT: Mr. Cicerone, 13 first of all, I want to compliment you on 14 your house. I walked around it today and I 15 think it's beautiful. And I'm very 16 impressed with the way you've got it 17 landscaped. I'll support this for a lot of 18 reasons, but I just want -- I work for 19 Oakland County now, and one of the major 20 concerns facing all of us is this West Nile 21 virus. He does back up to some wetlands, 22 and I think it's prudent. 23 MR. CICERONE: We have the 24 pond over there, you know, the pond. 79
1 MR. GATT: Yes, I see. And 2 I think it's prudent that you're taking 3 steps to safeguard yourself and your 4 family. 5 MR. CICERONE: Thank you. 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Is that 7 a motion? 8 MR. GATT: No. It's not a 9 motion. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We try, 11 as a Board, to be pretty consistent, even 12 though we listen to every case, and this is 13 consistent with other cases that have the 14 same type of problem. 15 MEMBER GRAY: And the fact, 16 too, that it's no more of an encroachment 17 to the rear than what's already there. 18 You're just trying to enclose what's 19 already there so you can enjoy it better. 20 I don't have a problem with it. 21 In the matter of Case 22 Number 03-015, I move to approve the 23 petitioner's request to enclose an existing 24 deck, so he can better enjoy his yard 80
1 because it does not encroach any farther to 2 the rear setback than it does already. 3 MEMBER REINKE: Support. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 5 right. Motion supported. Any further 6 discussion? 7 (No discussion by the 8 Board.) 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah, 10 please? 11 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Gray? 12 13 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 14 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 15 Reinke? 16 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 17 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 18 Bauer? 19 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 20 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 21 Brennan? 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 23 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 24 Gatt? MEMBER GATT: 81
1 Yes. 2 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 3 Gronachan? MEMBER 4 GRONACHAN: Yes. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sir, 6 you've got your variance. See the Building 7 Department. MR. 8 CICERONE: Thank you very much. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thanks 10 for coming down. 11 CASE NO. 03-016 - TELCOM CREDIT 12 UNION 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We're 14 going to call one more case and take a 15 quick break. Case 16 03-016, Robert Wineman of Etkin Equities. 17 He would like a 20-square foot ground sign 18 at West Twelve Mile in the Timber Creek 19 Development. Sir, raise 20 your hand and be sworn. 21 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 22 swear or affirm that the information that 23 you're about to give in the matter before 24 you is true? 82
1 MR. WINEMAN: I do. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 3 you. 4 MR. WINEMAN: Good evening. 5 I'm 6 Rob Wineman. We are the developer's of a 7 37,000-square foot building for Telcom 8 Credit Union. We're here this evening to 9 request a variance for the installation of 10 a second monument sign at the 11 Cabaret Drive entrance. 12 The site itself sits on the 13 corner of Twelve Mile and Cabaret Drive. 14 There's an existing monument sign on 15 Twelve Mile Road as we sit here tonight. 16 The Cabaret Drive, however, is the main 17 entranceway for their retail customers. 18 The building itself, on the first floor, 19 does have a retail branch. Associated with 20 that, is a drive through banking system. 21 This is the main source of ingress and 22 egress for those customers. 23 In addition, the monument 24 sign itself, just of note, conforms in and 83
1 of itself. 2 And lastly, Telcom, aside 3 from the address which will be on the 4 building, will have no other building 5 facade signage. 6 I'll be happy to answer any 7 of your questions. 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 9 you. 10 Seven notices sent. No 11 approvals, no objections. Anyone in the 12 audience? 13 (No response from the 14 audience.) 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 16 Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: This is a 18 corner lot. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: So 20 noted. 21 Board members? 22 MR. GATT: Is Telcom the 23 only person in that building, the only 24 company? 84
1 MR. WINEMAN: Yes. They're 2 the sole occupant of the building. 3 MEMBER GATT: And will 4 remain so? 5 MR. WINEMAN: Yes. 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Second 7 sign on a corner lot. Any other 8 discussion? 9 (No discussion by the 10 Board.) 11 MR. CHAIRMAN: Motion? 12 MEMBER BAUER: Case 03-016, 13 approval of the requested variance due to 14 identification. MEMBER 15 GRONACHAN: Support. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have 17 a motion and support. Any discussion? 18 (No discussion by the 19 Board.) 20 MR. CHAIRMAN: Sarah, 21 please. 22 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 23 Bauer? MEMBER 24 BAUER: Yes. 85
1 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 2 Gronachan? MEMBER 3 GRONACHAN: Yes. 4 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 5 Brennan? 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 7 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 8 Gatt? MEMBER GATT: 9 Yes. 10 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 11 Gray? 12 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 13 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 14 Reinke? 15 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sir, you 17 have your variance. See the Building 18 Department for your necessary permit. 19 MR. WINEMAN: Thank you very 20 much. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Ladies 22 and gentlemen, if you'll give us four or 23 five minutes, we're going to take a quick 24 break and we'll be back at 8:47. 86
1 2 (A brief recess 3 was taken.) 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 5 right. We'll resume our meeting. 6 CASE NO. 03-017 - SARATOGA CIRCLE/CAMDEN 7 COURT 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Case 9 03-017, filed by Martha Hood of S.R. 10 Jacobson for Saratoga Circle/Camden Court. 11 They're looking for a sign -- 12 oh, a continuation. 13 MS. HOOD: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Right. 15 Thank you. Raise your hand 16 and be sworn. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 18 swear or affirm that the information you're 19 about to give in the matter before you is 20 the truth? 21 MS. HOOD: I do. 22 MEMBER CRONACHAN: Thank 23 you. 24 MS. HOOD: My name is Martha 87
1 Hood. I'm here on behalf of S.R. Jacobson, 2 and we're asking to extend our original 3 permits for the two additional signs at the 4 adjoining property at Saratoga Circle and 5 Camden Court. 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 7 you. 8 There were 106 notices 9 sent. We have one approval from Martha 10 Hood. 11 MEMBER GRAY: I don't think 12 that counts, does it? 13 MS. HOOD: We do have 14 property there. CHAIRMAN 15 BRENNAN: We actually have one approval 16 from Jennifer Pierson as well. 17 Anybody in the audience care 18 to talk to us about this case? 19 (No response from the 20 audience.) 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Hearing 22 not, we'll move to the Building Department. 23 24 MR. SAVEN: No comment. 88
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 2 members? MEMBER REINKE: 3 Where do you stand right now, build-out? 4 MS. HOOD: Oh. We have 16 5 lots remaining at Camden Court. We have 6 nine remaining at Saratoga. And that's, of 7 course, removing pending sales agreements 8 because we assume those are done. 9 MEMBER REINKE: What 10 percentage of the total is that? 11 MS. HOOD: We're 12 approximately, I would say, 55 percent 13 completed at Camden Court and about 70 14 percent completed at Saratoga. We've got 15 about a year left at Saratoga, pending the 16 economy, and about a year to a year and a 17 half on Camden Court pending summer sales. 18 19 MEMBER REINKE: I can 20 support one more year. That's it. 21 MS. HOOD: We've lowered 22 our pricing. We're hoping that will help. 23 MEMBER REINKE: I 24 understand. And we're trying to help and 89
1 trying to work with you on this, but 2 somewhere we've got to find an end. 3 MS. HOOD: I agree. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 5 Any other Board members? 6 MEMBER BAUER: Is this 7 really a Zoning Board of Appeals case; it 8 went that far back? 9 One year, that's fine. I go for that. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 11 right. Jerry or Laverne, you want to move 12 on this? 13 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 14 Chairman, in 15 Case 03-017, I move that the petitioner's 16 variance be granted for a period not to 17 exceed one year. 18 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: 20 Discussion on the motion -- I pulled the 21 trigger too quick. Cindy, do you have a 22 question? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I just 24 have a question. In the application it 90
1 says: We will redesign the signs to meet 2 the square foot maximum. 3 MS. HOOD: Yes. There are 4 some dangler signs on the bottom that Alan 5 alerted me that they put on somehow 6 between -- I used to work for them and then 7 now he alerted me to that. And we've 8 removed them and then redesigned it to 9 incorporate the verbiage and spruce up the 10 sign not to exceed its existing square 11 footage. 12 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Because 13 on Sunday I wasn't sure what it looked 14 like. 15 MS. HOOD: There was two 16 danglers on the bottom of the sign, and I 17 removed those but the verbiage needs to 18 reintroduced into the sign, so that's why 19 you have the attached change. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I just 21 wanted a clarification. Thank you. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 23 right. Motion and second and discussion. 24 Anything further? 91
1 (No discussion by the 2 Board.) 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah, 4 please. 5 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 6 Reinke? 7 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 9 Bauer? MEMBER BAUER: 10 Yes. 11 THE WITNESS: Member 12 Brennan: 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 14 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 15 Gatt? 16 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 17 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 18 Gray? 19 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 20 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 21 Gronachan? MEMBER 22 GRONACHAN: Yes. 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 24 You've got another year to sell them out. 92
1 MS. HOOD: Thank you. 2 CASE 03-018 - DAIVA LUKASIEWICZ 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 4 right. 5 Case 03-018, Daiva- 6 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: 7 Lukasiewicz. 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I was 9 just ready to say that. Lukasiewicz. 10 This is the swimming pool 11 case, okay. You needed a three-foot 12 variance to put an addition on the back of 13 your house, because if you put this 14 addition on, you're a little bit close to 15 the swimming pool, and that's why you need 16 three feet. Raise your 17 hand and be sworn. Thank you. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 19 swear or affirm that the information you're 20 about to give in the matter before you is 21 the truth? 22 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: I do. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 24 you. 93
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Tell us 2 what you want to do. 3 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: We are a 4 family of six. We have lived at the house 5 for ten years. We are busting at the seams 6 in the family room; we cannot all fit in 7 there comfortably. We'd like to add out. 8 We want to add eight feet, which would make 9 the space between the addition, the house, 10 and the pool down to seven feet instead of 11 ten. We currently have a six-foot doorwall 12 along the back of our family room. To 13 maximize the space, we would like to move 14 it to the side, so we would have to go out 15 at least seven -- well, over six feet. We 16 would like it to be eight. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 18 Now that was painless, wasn't it? 19 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: Pretty 20 much. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There 22 were 22 notices, five approvals. These are 23 all neighbors. The Whites, Kaufmans, 24 Boyles, Toka, Prest, Valley. No 94
1 objections. 2 Anyone in the audience? 3 (No response from the 4 audience.) 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 6 Department. 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: No 8 comment, sir. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 10 members? MEMBER BAUER: 11 Did you get the Homeowners Association? 12 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: Yes, we 13 did. 14 MS. MARCHIONI: She dropped 15 it off. It's in the file. 16 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. I 17 didn't see that, but Sarah doesn't lie. 18 Any other questions? 19 MEMBER GATT: How big is 20 your dog -- I'm just kidding. I was going 21 to get out and walk around, but. 22 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: She's 23 still a puppy. 24 MEMBER GATT: Okay. 95
1 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: Very 2 large, loud bark. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: My take 4 on this is that this is a reasonable 5 request, and a very slight variance 6 requirement to meet the ordinance. 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I'll 8 make a motion. 03-018, that the 9 petitioner's request be approved. She's 10 within the spirit of the ordinance and the 11 request is minimal 12 MEMBER GRAY: Support. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 14 right. Any discussion? 15 (No discussion by the 16 Board.) 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 18 right. Sarah. MS. 19 MARCHIONI: Member Brennan? 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Gronachan? 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 96
1 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 2 Gatt? 3 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 4 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 5 Gray? 6 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 7 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 8 Reinke? 9 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I have 11 four children also, and I've put an 12 addition on my family room. See the 13 Building Department for your permit. 14 MS. LUKASIEWICZ: Thank 15 you. 16 CASE NO. 03-019 - PREMIUM SELF STORAGE 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 18 right. 19 Mr. Michael Parks representing Premium Self 20 Storage, Case 03-019. This is a -- I 21 don't think I've ever seen one of these on 22 this Board -- but a variance to allow a 23 flat roof for a self storage facility. 24 All buildings proposed for 97
1 the development have flat roofs, and that 2 is in violation of the ordinance. 3 Sir, you want to give us 4 your name and be sworn? 5 MR. PARKS: Sure. Michael 6 Parks with Cypress Partners. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Raise 8 your right hand, please. 9 Do you swear or affirm that 10 the information you're about to give in the 11 matter before you is the truth? 12 MR. PARKS: I do. 13 Just to give you a quick 14 history. We were looking for a property to 15 develop this project on for a couple of 16 years in Novi. We've identified the 17 property about a year ago. Started to meet 18 with staff through last summer and organize 19 plans. Submitted in November for the 20 Preliminary Site Plan approval. The end of 21 February, we received unanimous approval, 22 I think it was 7-0 for the Preliminary 23 Site Plan approval, subject to the granting 24 of a variance for the project. 98
1 The hardship on this project 2 is the inability to build a storage 3 building of any size and stay underneath 4 the 15-foot height requirement and build a 5 pitched roof. We tried a number of 6 different ways. It just does not work. 7 The Planning Commission kind of agreed with 8 us that it was an antiquated ordinance to 9 meet the kind of changing style of storage 10 buildings that are being built today, and 11 we're here tonight before you to ask for a 12 variance. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 14 you. 15 There were 19 notices sent. 16 No approvals, no objections. Anyone in the 17 audience? (No 18 response from the audience.) 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 20 Department? 21 MR. SAVEN: No comment, 22 sir. 23 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I have a 24 question for you. I don't recall this 99
1 coming before us before and I know there's 2 other storage facilities. I had made a 3 mental note to check out some others, to 4 the best I recall, they're all flat, flat 5 roofed. Is this a little quirk in the 6 ordinance that we don't address the 7 particular design needs of storage 8 facilities? Is there any history here? 9 MR. SCHULTZ: If I may, Mr. 10 Chair. This is a particular requirement 11 for the I-1 district, which is what the 12 zoning on this property is. 13 The Planning Commission 14 reviewed this as a special land use, which 15 as you know is kind of a discretionary 16 approval, much like a ZBA variance. I 17 think they looked at the existing building 18 and the new one, and did the same kind of 19 analysis that you did this year, and it is 20 peculiar to the I-1 District, I believe. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 22 members? 23 MEMBER BAUER: This was 24 going to be a repair shop at one time. 100
1 MR. SAVEN: Oh, yes. 2 Exotic cars. 3 MEMBER BAUER: I have no 4 problem with it at all. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: It would 6 seem that its use is best served with 7 having a flat roof so you can shove more 8 stuff in it. That's what you're selling. 9 Any other Board members? 10 Sarah? 11 MEMBER GRAY: I think 12 there's some comment. I've been reading 13 the Planning Commission Minutes about maybe 14 the front building having a gable roof, and 15 you didn't want to do that. And I realize 16 it's a two-story building. 17 MR. PARKS: Yeah, the front 18 building, it's completely impossible to do 19 it because of the size of the building. By 20 the time you put a pitched roof on it and 21 stay underneath the 15-foot, your building 22 becomes like a- 23 MEMBER GRAY: Okay. And 24 it's just because it's peculiar to the I-1 101
1 District. 2 MR. SAVEN: And the existing 3 structure. 4 MR. SCHULTZ: This is, as I 5 said, a special land use to be used in the 6 District, and among the several 7 requirements is information regarding the 8 facade materials and a statement as to 9 architectural design, precluding a flat 10 roof. So I'm not aware of it being in any 11 other district. It's written into this 12 district. 13 MEMBER GRAY: Okay. I 14 don't have a problem with it. I think it's 15 a, if I'm reading the minutes and what the 16 presentation was, it's something that's 17 needed, especially climate control, so I 18 think it going to fill a need. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Other 20 Board members? 21 MR. GATT: Also, in reading 22 the Minutes, they've more than complied 23 with the Planning Commission requests. 24 They've boosted up their landscape to some 102
1 extent, and I see the awnings and so on and 2 so forth. It's going to be a nice looking 3 building. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Ready to 5 make your first motion there, Rob? 6 MEMBER GATT: No. I'm 7 still watching. 8 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 9 Chairman, in 10 Case 03-019, I move that the petitioner's 11 request be granted due to the unique 12 characteristic of the zoning district. 13 MEMBER BAUER: Second the 14 motion. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 16 Motion and a second. Any discussion? 17 (No discussion by the 18 Board.) 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 20 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 21 Reinke? 22 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 23 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 24 Bauer? 103
1 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 2 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 3 Brennan? CHAIRMAN 4 BRENNAN: Yes. 5 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 6 Gatt? 7 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 9 Gray? 10 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 11 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 12 Gronachan? 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 15 You have your variance. See the Building 16 Department. 17 MR. PARKS: Thank you very 18 much. 19 CASE NO. 03-020 - ASBURY 20 PARK 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We still 22 have on the Agenda this next case, correct; 23 just part of it was deleted; right? 24 03-020, Asbury Park. 104
1 MS. MARCHIONI: The party is 2 out in the hallway. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Are you 4 here for Asbury Park? 5 MR. ROSSI: Yes, I am. 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We 7 called your case. 8 MR. ROSSI: I'm sorry about 9 that. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Give us 11 your name and raise your hand and be 12 sworn. 13 MR. ROSSI: My name is 14 Claudio Rossi. MEMBER 15 GRONACHAN: Do you swear or affirm that the 16 information you're about to give in the 17 matter before you is the truth? 18 MR. ROSSI: Yes, it is. 19 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 20 you. 21 MR. ROSSI: Good evening. 22 I'm with Mirage Development, and here on 23 behalf of the Asbury Park project. 24 I would like to request that 105
1 the Board consider a variance approval, on 2 the location of a two-acre open space area 3 within the Asbury Park project. 4 Due to the hardship created 5 by 20 some odd acres of wetland centrally 6 located within this project, we are unable 7 to place this open space within that 8 vicinity. However, we do have some upland 9 area to the south, that we are were able to 10 get the full two acres and be able to 11 provide pathways going to the east and to 12 the west, to be able to access the majority 13 of the sites within this project. 14 We did receive Planning 15 Commission recommended approval a few weeks 16 ago, and they suggested that we come to the 17 see the ZBA for your final approval. If 18 you have any questions, I'd be more than 19 happy to answer them. And I'm here to do 20 that. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 22 you. 23 There were 26 notices sent 24 to adjoining parcels. There were no 106
1 approvals. Two objections. Mr. Gibbons, 2 who was concerned about two variances when 3 we're only dealing with one, and that's the 4 location of this active recreation area. 5 Dolores Vedro wrote an 6 in-depth letter, I'm not going to read it 7 all. She and her husband are both 8 concerned about this. I'm not exactly sure 9 where they are. I would guess by their 10 address, they're very close to adjoining on 11 either side, 46800 Eleven Mile. 12 Anybody in the audience care 13 to discuss and talk to us? Come on down. 14 Give us your name and address. 15 Are you Mr. Bedrow or Mr. 16 Gibbons? 17 Neither, okay. 18 MR. SIEMBOR: You owe them 19 money? 20 My name is Will Siembor. I 21 live at 46500 Eleven Mile Road, which is -- 22 I have two common boundaries with the 23 development. My north, the back of my 24 property is the north side. Or my north 107
1 side is going to be adjacent now to the 2 active open area. I've been 3 the resident on that property for 17 years 4 now, full well knowing 17 years ago when I 5 bought the property, that Novi was a 6 growing city and things were going to be 7 developed. And I've participated in 8 Planning Commission meetings and City 9 Council meetings for Walden Woods, Lochmoor 10 Village, just to make sure things are 11 developed responsibly, in the spirit that 12 the City of Novi and the residents on 13 Eleven Mile Road would like them to be 14 developed. 15 I've been working with the 16 developer for two years now, in 17 communication with not only Mirage, but the 18 original developer and the owners of the 19 property, the wetlands, just to get an idea 20 of -- to make sure that they were going to 21 save as much of the wetlands as possible. 22 And I'm very convinced that by saving the 23 wetlands, having the active open area even 24 though the development is going to be more 108
1 than 75 open area, the active area is going 2 to be in my backyard basically. And as 3 long as there's no kids screaming on the 4 mornings, on Sunday mornings, I'm going to 5 be in favor of allowing them to put the 6 active recreation area behind -- outside of 7 the center of the development. So my vote 8 is for approving it. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Thank 10 you. 11 Anybody else in the 12 audience? 13 (No response from the 14 audience.) 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 16 Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: Just wondering 18 how you put that in a motion. 19 No comment, sir. 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 21 members? 22 What always seems to be 23 obvious to most isn't to somebody else, but 24 I don't know where the heck you would put 109
1 this active recreation area other than 2 where you placed it by nature of the 3 property. It's depressed with respect to 4 topography. This is a tough piece of 5 property to work with. 6 MEMBER REINKE: What it 7 looks like to me is that through the 8 topography and the elevation of the lot, of 9 this section piece of property, that is the 10 only area that would be actively available 11 for use. 12 MEMBER GRAY: I'm going to 13 throw a few other items in. I know Mr. and 14 Mrs. Vedro are very concerned about the 15 location of -- and looking at the 16 topography, I don't know where else you 17 could put it either. However, I'm going to 18 urge you to continue to work with those 19 residents around which you're going to be 20 located, to give them the most protection 21 from the potential of noise and other 22 factors. 23 I can support the variance, 24 but I'm very concerned about their quality 110
1 of life too. And you know, so if more 2 screening is going to be involved, whatever 3 you can do to work with these neighbors to 4 make them happy, please do so -- and I'm 5 sure you have, but don't stop. 6 MR. ROSSI: I've spoken 7 with 8 Mr. Vidro and also his next door neighbor. 9 We actually met on-site early this week, 10 and we did tell them that we can possibly 11 keep a small buffer of natural trees that 12 wouldn't affect the recreation area, or if 13 those trees have to come down, then we 14 would provide some screening with 15 replacement trees, so that there would be 16 some type of buffer between their north 17 property line and our south property line. 18 They were fine with that. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: They 20 also seem to think that this area was not 21 going to be maintained. Who maintains 22 this? 23 MR. ROSSI: Well, once the 24 Association is established for this 111
1 project -- obviously as the developer we 2 will be responsible for it until X amount 3 of people have moved in. And once the 4 Association takes over, they will be 5 responsible for maintaining the field and, 6 you know, trimming everything out and 7 making sure that everything looks- 8 MEMBER GRAY: (Interposing) 9 So up to 50 percent you're still 10 responsible- 11 MR. ROSSI: (Interposing) 12 At least 50 percent. It might even be 70 13 or 75 percent, I would have to look. 14 MEMBER GRAY: But you're 15 making a commitment to maintain it? 16 MR. ROSSI: Absolutely. 17 MR. SCHULTZ: A quick 18 comment. As I indicated at the Planning 19 Commission meeting, maybe in response to a 20 similar concern, we do review the master 21 deeds for the subdivision, and we require 22 that for all these open spaces there's a 23 maintenance requirement, and a fall back if 24 they fail to maintain it. We have the 112
1 ability to come and do it ourselves. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Anybody 3 else? 4 Cindy? 5 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 6 Chairman, I just -- Mrs. Vedro actually 7 called, and they were out of town, and 8 that's why the letter came and they're not 9 here this evening. But they're still very 10 concerned. 11 Now, you say you met with 12 Mr. Vedro last week? 13 MR. ROSSI: I met with Mr. 14 Vedro. Actually it was -- it was, I think, 15 either Thursday or Friday of last week. 16 And I met with his next door neighbor to 17 the west. And they both were concerned 18 about exactly what was happening at that 19 south property line. They were not aware 20 exactly where this recreation area was 21 going. In fact, where their property lines 22 were with respect to our property lines. 23 I met with both of them, 24 showed them exactly where the property 113
1 lines were located. Showed them the 2 stakes. Showed them exactly where -- 3 there's a retention pond going in to the 4 very west portion, and the recreation area 5 would be to the east. And showed them 6 exactly where those would be in respect to 7 their property, and assured them that we 8 would work with them to provide, you know, 9 the buffering needed in order to screen 10 this project off from their lots. 11 I think it was, I'm sorry I 12 think I might have said earlier this week. 13 For some reason I'm thinking it's later in 14 the week. It was at the end of last week. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No, I 16 understand. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There 18 were two issues raised by the Vedros, and 19 given they're not here, I'll just point out 20 one was the variance that was dropped 21 tonight, with respect to the required 22 active recreation space, the two acres. 23 That's not on the table, so that's not an 24 issue with them now because that's been 114
1 resolved. 2 The other was the screening 3 and the issues the petitioner has already 4 discussed. So I think that we've perhaps 5 satisfactorily provided some relief to the 6 Vedros, with them not being here. 7 MEMBER GATT: Mr. Chairman, 8 Mrs. Vedro also called me over the weekend. 9 For me to support this case, they would 10 have to make -- the motioner would have to 11 put in some sort of caveat that the builder 12 does put in a berm or trees or some kind of 13 barrier between the Vedros' concerns versus 14 the open space. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: What's 16 on record, he's going to leave some 17 existing foliage or trees that are there. 18 MR. ROSSI: If we're able 19 to leave, if the Department will allow to 20 us leave a small buffer of existing trees, 21 we can do so. If they feel that 22 everything has to be cleared, then we'll go 23 ahead and plant some replacement trees. 24 And we went on the record at the Planning 115
1 Commission, I think it's in the minutes, 2 that said that we would provide some type 3 of buffering around that recreation area. 4 But we would prefer to allow us to keep 5 some natural trees in there, if that will 6 work, you know. 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, 8 let's just keep the Board focused on the 9 variance request before us, and the 10 location of this recreation area along 11 Eleven Mile rather than being in the middle 12 of the property. That's what's before us 13 tonight. All these other concerns are 14 concerns, but what we are faced with is 15 this variance. 16 MR. ROSSI: Thank you. 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 18 members? MEMBER REED: 19 Everything sounds real logical to me, Mr. 20 Chairman. I've been in some other 21 subdivisions where the active recreation 22 areas always get the least amount of 23 attention, and I know you'll stand by your 24 word and it's on the record and everything, 116
1 but I've been in subdivisions where it 2 always gets the least attention because 3 you're focusing on the house and the look 4 of the subdivision and everything. Whether 5 it's the maintenance -- even after the 6 Homeowners Association takes over, it 7 always gets the least attention. 8 So just keep it as a focus. 9 I mean, obviously you're swearing to do all 10 this and that's great. I just want to make 11 sure that they're ultimately happy with 12 that because I know how it goes in 13 subdivisions. I mean, the trees that are 14 dead are in the active areas. The stuff 15 that's not being cut correctly or things 16 like that, it's always an issue because it 17 not right in front of you. 18 MR. ROSSI: Well, we'll try 19 to keep a close eye on it and make sure 20 that everything is kept clean and trimmed, 21 and the grass is mowed and whatever 22 needs -- I'm sure at some point in time as 23 the homeowners move in, they'll probably 24 want to make some amendments or amenities 117
1 to that area, you know, maybe add some 2 structures there that would be beneficial 3 to the kids in that neighborhood. But we 4 will do our best to keep control of it. 5 MEMBER GRAY: Mr. Chair, in 6 the matter of Case 03-020, I will move that 7 we approve the variance requested for the 8 location of the active recreation area to 9 the south perimeter of the sub, based on 10 the overall topography of the subdivision. 11 MR. REINKE: Support. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 13 right. Motion and support. Any 14 discussion? 15 (No discussion by the 16 Board.) 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 18 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Gray? 19 20 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Reinke? 23 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 118
1 Bauer? MEMBER BAUER: 2 Yes. 3 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 4 Brennan? 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 6 MS. MARCHIONI: Member Gatt? 7 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 8 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 9 Gronachan? 10 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 12 right. You have your variance. See the 13 Building Department. 14 MR. ROSSI: Thank you very 15 much. CASE NO. 03-021 - 16 MICHAEL BULBUK 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Mr. 18 Bulbuk? 19 Michael Bulbuk, 41860 Quince, wants to 20 construct a garage addition. 21 Raise your hand and be 22 sworn. 23 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 24 swear or affirm that the information you're 119
1 about to give in the matter before you is 2 the truth? 3 MR. BULBUK: Yes, it is. 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 5 you. 6 MR. BULBUK: We bought our 7 home in 1997. It's a tri-level with a 8 one-car attached garage, and as was 9 mentioned on more than one occasion 10 tonight, inadequate one-car garage. It 11 happens to have a leaky roof, and we'd like 12 to upgrade it to something a little more 13 2003. 14 We currently have four 15 drivers in the house. 16 and 17-year-old 16 sons and we jockey for position as it is 17 using our driveway. We have never used our 18 garage for actually parking vehicles and 19 would like to do so. 20 The two setbacks that we're 21 asking for, the rear setback would just be 22 to tie into the existing back of the 23 house. We also own a second parcel of 24 property which is right behind the house. 120
1 My wife was encouraging me, the storage 2 unit had the three placards -- I have three 3 little pictures, and she wanted me to put 4 these out in front, but I don't think you 5 can see them from here. I brought pictures 6 in case some of you didn't get a chance to 7 get out and see the property. 8 The front setback is 9 actually on the side. There is a street, 10 Woodglen Drive. We didn't know the name 11 of it when we bought the house because 12 there was no sign up. It runs about 100 13 feet west of Quince and it just stops and 14 dead-ends. And I doubt that anything will 15 be ever be able to be built behind it. 16 The initial proposals that I 17 brought to the Building Department were for 18 three-car garages. One was with the 19 entrance off of Quince and another was with 20 the entrance off of Woodglen Drive, which 21 would have been a side entrance. The third 22 proposal, which I believe is the one that 23 you have a copy of, would be for a two and 24 a half car garage off of the front with the 121
1 Quince entrance. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Is that 3 it? 4 MR. BULBUK: That's it. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 22 6 notices. Three approvals. Your neighbors, 7 Nataffi? 8 MR. BULBUK: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Dorothy 10 McDugan and Colleen Berry. 11 Anybody in the audience care 12 to talk to us? 13 (No response from the 14 audience.) 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 16 Department? 17 MR. SAVEN: Only that this 18 is technically a corner lot. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 20 members? MEMBER REINKE: 21 Well, if it wasn't the street going to 22 nowhere, we wouldn't have a problem. 23 I have no problem with the 24 petitioner's request. 122
1 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 3 Chair, I also concur. Cute dog though. 4 Nice dog. Good thing the yard is fenced. 5 I have no problem. The neighborhood, it's 6 not going to change anything from the rest 7 of houses. There are some two car garages 8 out there, and I don't even know that that 9 garage right now could fit your car in it. 10 11 MR. BULBUK: It couldn't fit 12 our van, I know that. 13 MEMBER GRONACHAN: No, 14 absolutely. So I don't see -- the fact 15 that it's a corner lot, the lot size and 16 the configuration, I don't have a problem 17 with it. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Is that 19 a motion? MEMBER GRONACHAN: 20 Sure, it can be. Case 21 Number 03-021, I move that we approve the 22 variance for 14.5 feet with the front yard 23 setback, and the 7.1 feet for the rear yard 24 setback, for the garage, based on the lot 123
1 size configuration, and also due to the 2 fact that this is a corner lot. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 5 Any discussion? 6 (No discussion by the 7 Board.) 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 9 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 10 Gronachan? MEMBER 11 GRONACHAN: Yes. 12 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 13 Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 16 Brennan? 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 18 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 19 Gatt? 20 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Gray? 23 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 124
1 Reinke? 2 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 4 right. You've got your variance to build a 5 two-car garage. See the Building 6 Department for your permits. 7 MR. BULBUK: Thank you for 8 your time. 9 CASE NO. 03-022 - TRILLIUM VILLAGE 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 11 right. 12 Mr. Byarski. You're here for Trillium 13 Village. 14 MR. BYARSKI: I am. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: This is 16 Case 03-022. You need some variances for a 17 sidewalk, I guess. 18 MR. BYARSKI: Yes. A 19 sidewalk and retaining the stone house. 20 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: You want 21 to raise your hand and be sworn, please? 22 MR. BYARSKI: Pardon me, 23 sir? 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Raise 125
1 your hand and be sworn, please. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 3 swear or affirm that the information you're 4 about to give in the matter before you is 5 the truth? 6 MR. BYARSKI: I do. 7 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Thank 8 you. 9 MR. BYARSKI: Basically, we 10 have some pictures here, and I don't know 11 if you've had the opportunity to take a 12 look at them, but there's that, in our 13 opinion, what the stone house on Nine Mile 14 there, which we view as an asset to the 15 community. The gentleman that we 16 purchased the property from grew up there, 17 and his father constructed it, and it's in 18 beautiful shape. 19 And what we were originally 20 designing would not have required a 21 variance, but because of the exit that the 22 traffic engineer requested to go out onto 23 Nine Mile, so we'd have two entrances and 24 exits, it required us to put the road a 126
1 little bit closer to that house than 2 necessary, although it's substantially back 3 from Nine Mile. We just think it's a 4 beautiful asset, and moving it would 5 destroy it. 6 And it's just been redone. 7 If you ever have the opportunity to take a 8 look at it, it's gorgeous. As a result of 9 that, running the sidewalk, it's just 10 common sense that you'd have to terminate 11 it a little bit earlier, because it would 12 be too close to the house. Along with the 13 sidewalk, up by Haggerty, which the 14 Planning Commission recommended that it go 15 on the north side of the road, because of 16 people turning in and safety issues. So 17 the sidewalk is pretty much a safety 18 issue. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay 20 MR. BYARSKI: Thank you. 21 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There 22 were 14 notices sent. No approvals; no 23 objections. 24 Anyone in the audience care 127
1 to talk to us about this case? 2 (No response from the 3 audience.) 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 5 Department? 6 MR. SAVEN: It's basically 7 what he indicated. If you take a look at 8 where the sidewalk is in terms of Detention 9 Basin B, it does not go all the way 10 through to Haggerty Road, and also the 11 stone house that exists, would be on the 12 westerly side of the property line. The 13 sidewalk ends abruptly at that stone house 14 area. So it does not go all the way 15 through. It's just for those two areas 16 that we had a concern for the sidewalk. It 17 provided for the rest of the area. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 19 Board members? 20 I, for one, sir, am glad to 21 see a developer that's looking at a piece 22 of Novi history and wanting to keep it. 23 MR. BYARSKI: Thank you. 24 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I 128
1 remember the Yerke's home on Eight Mile 2 magically disappeared via a fire when that 3 subdivision went up. And I thank you for 4 that. 5 Board members? 6 MEMBER GATT: I just occur 7 with 8 Mr. Brennan. That's a beautiful house, and 9 I know the owners -- I knew the owners. 10 They've been there forever, and I'm glad 11 it's going to stay in Novi forever. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: So it 13 sounds like we have some concurrence that 14 the petitioner's requests are reasonable. 15 Any objection to those requests? 16 MR. REINKE: Is that a 17 motion, 18 Mr. Chairman? 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yeah, 20 we'll wait for you, Laverne. 21 MR. REINKE: Mr. Chairman, 22 In 23 Case 03-022, I move that the petitioner's 24 request be granted due to retaining a 129
1 historic home, and due to the requirements 2 of the site developer. 3 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 4 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 5 Motion and second. Any discussion? 6 (No discussion by the 7 Board.) 8 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 9 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 10 Reinke? 11 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 12 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 13 Bauer? 14 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 15 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 16 Brennan? 17 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 18 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 19 Gatt? 20 MEMBER GATT: Yes. 21 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 22 Gray? 23 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 24 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 130
1 Gronachan? 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 3 MR. BYARSKI: Thank you 4 again. CHAIRMAN 5 BRENNAN: You have your variance. 6 CASE NO. 03-023 - SUMMERLIN 7 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Case No. 8 03-023 filed by Robert McCowan for 9 Summerlin. These are street signs? 10 MR. McCOWAN: Correct. 11 Good evening. 12 I'm Robert McCowan, Summitt Development. 13 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Raise 14 your right hand and be sworn. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Do you 16 swear or affirm that the information you're 17 about to give in the matter before you is 18 the truth? 19 MR. McCOWAN: I do. 20 I just started in the 21 Sutherland project on West Park Road, and I 22 just began my model home and spec home in 23 there, and I required some signage to bring 24 people in off the road. 131
1 Up front, I think we're 2 permitted four square feet. And driving by 3 at 40 or 50 miles an hour, it's difficult 4 to read any kind of a sign that's four 5 square feet. And so I did a sandwich board 6 out there, that I think is a little larger 7 and helps people see the neighborhood 8 before they pass it. 9 And then internally in the 10 neighborhood, I used the same sign to get 11 people to my sales center. And then I 12 placed another sign, which was going to be 13 a permanent sign for the model on the 14 property line between Home Site 24 and 36. 15 This is a standard size model home center 16 sign that I've used for years and -- do you 17 all have the photographs? The bottom part 18 of that is lattice, more for decoration. 19 It's not even part of the physical sign. 20 And I think that size there again is easier 21 for people to read and understand that's a 22 model home. I think if you get down to a 23 two by three sign, it very difficult for 24 someone to discern what it is unless they 132
1 drive right up to it. 2 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 3 There were 59 notices and we have two 4 objections from Mr. Penn on West Lake Drive 5 and Mr. Ross on West Lake Drive. They take 6 exception to your variance request. 7 Anybody in the audience care 8 to talk to us? 9 (No response from the 10 audience.) 11 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Building 12 Department? 13 MR. SAVEN: No comment, 14 sir. 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Board 16 members. 17 MR. GATT: Well, I just 18 have one comment, Mr. Chairman. I'm new at 19 the game as everybody knows. When I drove 20 by, you know, there is all vacant land. 21 The subdivision is just now being started. 22 And the philosophy here is, you know, we 23 grant variances in cases of hardship. I 24 don't know what the hardship is here yet, 133
1 in that, you know, there's no homes up for 2 sale yet. And the ordinance written as is, 3 has been good for every other builder so 4 far. 5 MEMBER GRAY: I have a 6 problem with the number of signs requested. 7 I don't have a problem with Sign A or Sign 8 1 -- I'm hoping that they're the same 9 one -- with the lattice on it. I think 10 it's a nice looking sign, and I think that 11 should be adequate. Whether he chooses to 12 put it in by the sales center or if he 13 wants to put it out on West Park Drive, 14 that's his option. 15 As far as the other two 16 signs, people who drive in that area know 17 that these are new homes, and it's 18 excessive to have these signs. And I would 19 certainly hope that people aren't driving 20 40 and 50 miles an hour in a 40 mile an 21 hour zone. I would hope they're not 22 driving more than 40 miles an hour, but 23 that's beside the point. 24 I think the one sign should 134
1 be adequate, and if something is needed in 2 the future then I think maybe come back and 3 see us and tell us what the hardship is. 4 But having Sign A either at its present 5 location or out at West Park should be 6 adequate. 7 MR. McCOWAN: I believe that 8 when my model is complete I'm allowed to 9 have a 64-square foot sign out in the 10 right-of-way, like the one at Bristol 11 Corners; is that correct? 12 MR. SAVEN: You're talking 13 about a developmental construction sign? 14 MR. McCOWAN: Well, the 15 sign they used to advertise the 16 neighborhood for Jacobson and Triden. 17 MR. SAVEN: You're correct 18 as far as the 64-square foot, but that's 19 for development -- a development sign. 20 Everything that comes on after that, is an 21 additional sign. 22 MR. McCOWAN: Right, but 23 I'm proposing I won't even utilize a 24 64-square foot sign, so I'm actually 135
1 requesting less than is permitted. 2 MEMBER REINKE: When is he allowed 3 to put that development sign up? 4 MR. SAVEN: That's when the 5 first building permit is issued. 6 MR. McCOWAN: I have two 7 building permits in now. One is for the 8 model and one is for a spec home. 9 MEMBER REINKE: As long as 10 he has a permit, it doesn't make any 11 difference if it's a model or a spec home. 12 13 MR. SAVEN: That's correct. 14 15 MEMBER REINKE: I think 16 this should be tabled until you look at 17 what your options are as to what you can 18 put up under the existing ordinance 19 now, before we start making a variance for 20 additional signs. 21 MR. McCOWAN: What I was 22 suggesting is that I wasn't going to ask 23 for the larger sign, because I don't want 24 to put a sign that size up in a 136
1 right-of-way. 2 MEMBER REINKE: Well- 3 MEMBER GRAY: It sounds like 4 he's asking for three signs instead of 5 one. I'm not in favor of three signs. I'm 6 in favor of one sign, even if it's not as 7 big as the one he's allowed to have. 8 MEMBER REINKE: But the thing is, 9 if you make a variance for one sign, then 10 he really can have two; correct? 11 MEMBER GRAY: Well, then 12 maybe he has to decide which sign he wants 13 and which size he wants it. 14 MR. McCOWAN: Well, let me 15 propose something. I'd like to leave the 16 model sign up and then just have the 17 sandwich board at the entryway, and I'll 18 dispense with the third sign inside the 19 neighborhood. 20 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 21 Chairman, I have a question for Mr. Saven. 22 23 Mr. Saven, can you clarify 24 this for me. What can the petitioner have 137
1 right now upon completion of the model or a 2 spec home? 3 MR. SAVEN: He can have one 4 real estate sign. He can have a 5 construction identification sign of that 6 project, which normally has the architect, 7 the builder, phone numbers, and everything 8 else. Sometimes it gets carried away from 9 a construction identification sign to a 10 real estate sign, basically. And then he's 11 allowed one real estate sign, up to -- what 12 is it -- I think it was six square feet. 13 MR. BAUER: Be what, a 14 model identification? 15 MR. SAVEN: Yes. Something 16 along that line. 17 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So then 18 correct me if I'm wrong. If we grant a 19 variance, then he's actually going to have 20 three signs, because he's allowed a real 21 estate sign, he's allowed a construction 22 sign, and we'll grant him a variance for a 23 third sign. 24 MR. SAVEN: He's got a 138
1 second real estate sign which you're 2 dealing with, first of all. Secondly, 3 you're dealing with the size of that sign 4 which is over what is required by 5 ordinance. 6 In other words, you're 7 looking at something that could be 8 six-square foot, or you also could be 9 looking at something that could be 10 four-square foot. 11 MEMBER REINKE: Before I'm 12 ready to support this, I want to see an all 13 sign package that's going to go up there, 14 complete with a development sign and 15 everything. Because the way we're going at 16 this, I really don't know what we're going 17 to end up with. 18 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 19 Piecemeal. 20 MR. McCOWAN: I'm not 21 asking to do anything more than what's 22 there. So when the model is complete, my 23 sign program is not changing. 24 MR. SCHULTZ: Just a 139
1 comment, 2 Mr. Chair. 3 I think it would be an 4 appropriate condition, if the Board were 5 considering granting some relief, to take 6 the petitioner up on the offer and preclude 7 the 64-square foot sign that he would 8 otherwise be entitled to under the 9 ordinance without a variance. 10 I guess the tradeoff here, 11 you would be considering what he's entitled 12 to is one real estate sign and one 13 64-square foot sign. He's offering the 14 package that's before you, and presumably 15 stipulating to a condition that there 16 would be no 64-square foot sign. 17 So I'm not suggesting that 18 you do it, I'm just clarifying that I think 19 if he's offering that stipulation, it 20 would be enforceable, I believe. 21 MEMBER GATT: Mr. Chair, I'd 22 just go back to what I said earlier. I 23 don't see the hardship here yet. He hasn't 24 made a case that we should grant a 140
1 variance because there's no hardship. 2 We're playing Let's Make a Deal, you do 3 this and we'll do that, but I don't see why 4 we have to do anything right now. 5 MEMBER REINKE: He would be 6 allowed signage that could be on the front 7 of the development, as to what the 8 development is and what's being done. As 9 he puts a model up, he's allowed a model 10 identification sign, and I see no reason 11 for additional signage other than that at 12 this point in time. 13 MEMBER BAUER: I agree. 14 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I 15 agree. 16 MEMBER BAUER: He does not 17 have to go up to 64 square feet. He can 18 put up a 32 square feet, whatever. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Well, do 20 you get the gist where we're heading? 21 MR. McCOWAN: I think so. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Do you 23 want to modify your request at all? 24 MR. McCOWAN: So if I have 141
1 one four-square foot sign in the entryway, 2 which I'm actually allowed to have 3 64-square feet, and a model identification 4 sign, that gives me the two signs that I'm 5 allowed to have; is that correct? 6 MR. SAVEN: You're going to 7 have to let me get into the book on this. 8 MEMBER REINKE: Without 9 having what ordinance and everything you're 10 allowed, considering along with what we're 11 looking at granting variances for, I really 12 don't see where the total package is, and 13 that's where I have a problem. 14 MR. McCOWAN: Well, when 15 Maureen came out and measured the sign, she 16 said your sign's over and if you want to 17 keep it, you've got to apply for a 18 variance. So I came in and met Sarah, and 19 we filled out the paperwork and submitted 20 it. And then I was also made aware of the 21 64-square foot sign, which to me isn't 22 something that I want to do because I think 23 it detracts from the entranceway of the 24 neighborhood, and there's all sorts of 142
1 natural landscaping features and limestone, 2 and there's going to be a nice sandblasted 3 development sign put in there in the 4 future. 5 So I thought that if I had 6 smaller signs, especially ones that were 7 not permanent, like the sandwich board, 8 that might be more appropriate for that 9 development as opposed to, you know, a 10 large sign in the right-of-way. And I 11 thought that was a reasonable compromise. 12 On the second sign in the entryway, I'm 13 willing to give that up, but I'd like to 14 have some sort of directional sign at the 15 entryway, plus the model identification 16 sign. And if you add those up, you know, 17 I think the total is a little over 18 20-square feet between the two signs, 19 which is much less than is permitted. 20 MEMBER REINKE: So you're 21 saying, of these, you could get by with two 22 signs? 23 MR. McCOWAN: The model 24 identification and the red one in the 143
1 entryway. 2 MEMBER GRONACHAN: So he 3 wants this sign. 4 MEMBER REINKE: Okay. 5 That's Sign A, and then what's the other 6 one that you want? 7 MR. McCOWAN: The red and 8 white directional at the entryway. The 9 sandwich board. Once the 10 model's up, the second one wouldn't be as 11 necessary, because what happens is they 12 drive in Summerlin Drive, and we have to 13 direct them to the right to the sales 14 center. So once the model is up, it's 15 going to be straight in front of the 16 entryway, so I would agree to take that one 17 down. 18 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: And 19 you're giving up this option or the 20 availability of this construction sign. 21 MR. McCOWAN: The 64-square 22 foot in the entryway, yes, I am. 23 MR. GATT: Okay. It sounds 24 like it might be Let's Make a Deal, but it 144
1 might be a good deal. I would much rather 2 give up a 64-square foot sign and give this 3 gentleman the two signs today, knowing 4 that's all they're going to have, and get 5 rid of that 64-square foot sign. A 6 64-square foot sign is a big sign. We're 7 dealing with the lesser of two evils here. 8 9 MEMBER REINKE: Okay. So 10 we're saying that we can live with Signs A 11 and C, and you'll give up the 64-square 12 foot development sign. 13 MR. McCOWAN: Correct. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: There we 15 go. 16 MR. REINKE: Sounds good to 17 me. 18 Mr. Chairman, in Case 19 03-023, I move the petitioner's request be 20 granted for Sign A, and Sign C, as total 21 signage without having the 64-square foot 22 development sign for his development 23 identification. 24 MEMBER GRAY: Second. 145
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 2 right. We have a motion and second. Any 3 discussion? 4 (No discussion by the 5 Board.) 6 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Sarah? 7 MS. MARCHIONI: Just so 8 we're clear. Sign A is one, and C is 9 three; correct? 10 MEMBER GRAY: Correct. 11 MR. SCHULTZ: These will be 12 the only two signs. There will be no 13 further signage without 14 coming back to this Board. 15 MEMBER REINKE: Correct. 16 MS. MARCHIONI: Okay. 17 Member Reinke? 18 MEMBER REINKE: Yes. 19 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 20 Gray? 21 MEMBER GRAY: Yes. 22 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 23 Bauer? 24 MEMBER BAUER: Yes. 146
1 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 2 Brennan? 3 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Yes. 4 THE WITNESS: Member Gatt? 5 MEMBER GATT: No. 6 MS. MARCHIONI: Member 7 Gronachan? 8 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Yes. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Okay. 10 You have a modified variance request. 11 MR. McCOWAN: Thank you. 12 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: See the 13 Building Department. 14 OTHER MATTERS 15 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We do 16 have other matters before us. 17 We are up for elections, and 18 as Chair I would like to make a motion for 19 the new Chair, and it's based on tenure. 20 The fact that Mr. Bauer has many years, and 21 Mr. Reinke has many years, I've been Chair 22 twice, and I'd like to nominate Cindy 23 Gronachan for Chairman. 24 MEMBER BAUER: Second. 147
1 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have a 2 motion and a second. All those in favor 3 say aye. 4 MEMBERS: Aye. 5 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: That was 6 quite overwhelming. Try that again. All 7 those in favor say aye. 8 MEMBERS: Aye. 9 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 10 those -- is that a majority? It sounded 11 like it. Kind of weak, but I think we're 12 just tired. 13 We have the Vice Chair 14 position. 15 MEMBER GRONACHAN: I would 16 like to, Mr. Chair, nominate Sarah Gray for 17 Vice Chair. MEMBER 18 BAUER: Second. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Support. 20 All those in favor say aye. 21 MEMBERS: Aye. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: We have a 23 position -- what is your position? 24 MEMBER GRONACHAN: 148
1 Secretary. CHAIRMAN 2 BRENNAN: Secretary. Swearing in. Do we 3 have a motion? 4 MEMBER GRONACHAN: Mr. 5 Chair, I would like to nominate Mr. Bauer. 6 He hasn't done any swearing in for a 7 while. 8 MR. BAUER: I haven't swore 9 in a long time. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: I'll 11 second that motion. All those in favor say 12 aye. 13 MEMBERS: Aye. 14 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: Very 15 good. The second item has been removed, 16 the On the Border sign. 17 We have a late guest and 18 given we finished, sir, did you want to 19 address us? 20 MR. HOGAN: Actually, no, 21 not tonight. Thank you for the offer. 22 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 23 right. I believe, unless there's other 24 issues, that we've concluded. 149
1 I'm thrilled that after 2 nearly a year and a half, pushing two 3 years, we've finally got a full board. I 4 thank Chris and Bob for jumping in and 5 being very active immediately, even voting 6 no against the rest of us. 7 8 MEMBER GATT: I didn't see 9 the hardship. 10 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: That's 11 why you're here. 12 MEMBER REINKE: Mr. 13 Chairman, I'd like to -- I think it's the 14 rest of the Board's and my feeling, but I'd 15 like to express it personally, is to 16 appreciate your outstanding job you did for 17 us in the last year. 18 MEMBERS: Here, here. 19 CHAIRMAN BRENNAN: All 20 right. Thank you. This meeting is 21 adjourned. 22 (The above proceedings 23 ended at 9:45 p.m.) 24 _ _ _ 150
Date approved: June 3, 2003 __________________________ Sarah Marchioni Recording Secretary 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 I, MAUREEN A. HARAN, do 11 hereby certify that I have recorded 12 stenographically, the proceedings had and 13 the testimony taken in the above-entitled 14 matter, at the time and place hereinbefore 15 set forth; and I do further certify that 16 the foregoing transcript, consisting of one 17 hundred twenty-one (121) pages, is a full, 18 true and correct transcript of my 19 stenographic notes. 20 21 22 ________________________________ 23 Maureen A. Haran, C.S.R. 3606 24 151
1 2 _________________ 3 (Date) 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 152
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